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Thread: Terminator Salvation (2009)

  1. #181
    Συνεργάτης Μόσπιτ Ingolemo's Avatar
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    ntaks den thelei kai xarti kai moluvi, alla nai, uparxei thewria (mallon ekseliksh senariou kalutera) tetoia pou ontws ekshgountai ta terminators xwris kena kai paradoksa.
    Auto vevaia ginetai me to na exoume parei ena swro paradoxes kai senariakes eukolies, pou an den isxuoun exoume paradoksa, alla ok, tainia einai "etsi ginan".

    A, kai bon, to "άκου παράλληλα σύμπαντα... καραλολ ρεε" den katalava akrivws giati to les.
    Mia xara thewria einai ta parallhla sumpanta, eidika gia sci-fi tainies.


    Epigrammatika pantws epeidh variemai na ekshgw twra, h thewria mperni gia ta terminators leei panw katw oti kathe fora pou stelnetai kati sto parelthon allazei automata to parwn-parelthon (ksanagrafetai olh h istoria).
    Epishs an apo th X xronikh stimgh steilw sto parelthon terminator sthn X-5, prepei na uparxei logos, otan ksanarthei h (kainourgia) X' xronikh stigmh, na steilw terminator sto parelthon (gia na uparxei aitio-apotelesma, alliws paradokso), to opoio einai ligo moufa ws thewria, alla me ena swro senariakes eukolies klp ekshgeitai to senario tou terminator mia xara (aka xwris paradoksa-trupes).
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect. But actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly...timey-wimey...stuff.

  2. #182
    ρεταλι BURNIN AMBITION's Avatar
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    e gamaw
    ποθτανα ολα
    <Mitsmann>
    ολοι ειστε αβαγκαρντς αλλα οταν μπαινει το ΜΠΑΗ ΜΟΥΝΛΑΗΤ ΓΟΥΗ ΡΑΗΝΤ θυμαστε ολοι τι ειστε και απο που ερχεστε



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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Κατά τ' άλλα, γι αυτόν το λόγο το GoT είναι σειρά με @@. Αν ήταν να κερδάει πάντα ο καλός και ο Ολυμπιακός με το Αιγάλεω, θα βλέπαμε Σβαρτσενέγκερ.

  3. #183
    ρινς antimusic's Avatar
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    λοιπόν που λέτε παιδάκια,

    Spoiler
    δεν υπάρχει καμία μα καμία αιτιολόγηση για το πώς ο skynet μπορει να ξέρει όχι μόνο ποιος ειναι ο john connor (που είναι ένας τίποτας στην αρχή, δε θυμάμαι καν τι βαθμό έχει) ούτε οτι ο ρις είναι ο μπαμπάς του. και φυσικά δεν υπάρχει τρόπος ο skynet να έχει επίγνωση των κομβικών σημείων που άλλαξαν την ιστορία, αφού αυτό θα προϋπέθετε να στέκεται κάπου έξω από αυτήν (όπως εμείς καλή ώρα) ε και κάτι τέτοιο όχι μόνο δεν στέκει έστω και ψευδο-επιστημονικά, αλλά δεν στέκει και από την άποψη του στοριτελινγκ αφού δεν αναφέρεται ποτέ πουθενά. εκτός και αν στο μέλλον έστειλε μια δισκέτα στον εαυτό του, αλλά κάτι τέτοιο δεν θα έπρεπε να το ξέρουμε;

    αυτό το "μα γιατί δεν σκότωσε τον ρις" δεν μου λέει κάτι, και να τον σκότωνε δεν θα έκανε ο κόνορ ένα πουφ να εξαφανιστεί, λογικό να ήθελε να πιάσει με ένα σμπάρο δυο μαλάκες, το θέμα είναι οτι δεν έπρεπε να ξέρει καν τι ρόλο βαράνε οι δυο μάγκες. Το μόνο που έστω και σαν σεναριακή μαλακιούλα θα έστεκε θα ήταν ο skynet απλά να άκουσε τις κασσέτες της σάρα (και εν συνεχεία να έστησε ολόκληρη επιχείρηση πάνω στα παραληρήματα μιας μουρλής, αλλά αυτό είναι άλλο θέμα), αλλά όχι, έχει επίγνωση των παράλληλων συμπάντωνε λέμε, το είπε ο mcg.

    τρέχα μπάλωνε, λέω εγώ, δεν πήραν καν πρέφα τι έγραφαν και τι γύριζαν.

    κατά τα άλλα, μερικές ωραίες σκηνές, ωραία σκηνικά, ωραίο post-apoc, ηλίθιες χολιγουντιάνικες αψυχολόγητες μαλακοαντιδράσεις, καλοκαιρινό μπλοκμπάστερ.

    εντιτ συνεχίζω

    Spoiler
    ροφλ το σκάει ο μάρκους και του την πέφτουν με φωτοβολίδες μπιστολίδια μπόμπες και ναπαλμ, ακριβώς πάνω από την μυστική υπόγεια βάση τους ολαυτά, και ο skynet δεν παίρνει πρέφα να τους κεράσει ένα θανατάκι. γελάει ο κόσμος.
    Last edited by antimusic; 18-07-2009 at 20:48.
    Talking monkey, yeah, yeah. Came here from the future. Ugly sucker, only says "ficus".



  4. #184
    ρεταλι BURNIN AMBITION's Avatar
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    για το πρωτοεχω απαντησει διαβασε το θρεντ και αν δεν καταλαβεις τα ξαναλεμε

    για το δευτεροεισαι χαζος γιατι ηταν παγιδα του σκαινετ για να φερει το κονορ μεσαη στην καρδια του σκαινετ καινα τον φαει
    ποθτανα ολα
    <Mitsmann>
    ολοι ειστε αβαγκαρντς αλλα οταν μπαινει το ΜΠΑΗ ΜΟΥΝΛΑΗΤ ΓΟΥΗ ΡΑΗΝΤ θυμαστε ολοι τι ειστε και απο που ερχεστε



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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Κατά τ' άλλα, γι αυτόν το λόγο το GoT είναι σειρά με @@. Αν ήταν να κερδάει πάντα ο καλός και ο Ολυμπιακός με το Αιγάλεω, θα βλέπαμε Σβαρτσενέγκερ.

  5. #185
    ρινς antimusic's Avatar
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    ποιο είναι το πρώτο και ποιο το δεύτερο;
    Talking monkey, yeah, yeah. Came here from the future. Ugly sucker, only says "ficus".



  6. #186
    ρεταλι BURNIN AMBITION's Avatar
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    ελα ρε δε προσεξα οτι εσυ ποσταρες

    μιλαω για τις αποριες σου στα 2 σποιλερ ρε φιλε
    ποθτανα ολα
    <Mitsmann>
    ολοι ειστε αβαγκαρντς αλλα οταν μπαινει το ΜΠΑΗ ΜΟΥΝΛΑΗΤ ΓΟΥΗ ΡΑΗΝΤ θυμαστε ολοι τι ειστε και απο που ερχεστε



    iola 11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Κατά τ' άλλα, γι αυτόν το λόγο το GoT είναι σειρά με @@. Αν ήταν να κερδάει πάντα ο καλός και ο Ολυμπιακός με το Αιγάλεω, θα βλέπαμε Σβαρτσενέγκερ.

  7. #187
    ρεταλι BURNIN AMBITION's Avatar
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    μαλακα λιωνω με ταγκ ιφινοι σιδερωνει

    ειναι απλα τελειο

    οποιος τοεκανε ειναι θεος
    ποθτανα ολα
    <Mitsmann>
    ολοι ειστε αβαγκαρντς αλλα οταν μπαινει το ΜΠΑΗ ΜΟΥΝΛΑΗΤ ΓΟΥΗ ΡΑΗΝΤ θυμαστε ολοι τι ειστε και απο που ερχεστε



    iola 11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Κατά τ' άλλα, γι αυτόν το λόγο το GoT είναι σειρά με @@. Αν ήταν να κερδάει πάντα ο καλός και ο Ολυμπιακός με το Αιγάλεω, θα βλέπαμε Σβαρτσενέγκερ.

  8. #188
    ρινς antimusic's Avatar
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    η "απορία", αυτό που δεν εξηγείται ικανοποιητικά εν πάσει περιπτώσει, είναι το

    Spoiler
    δεν υπάρχει καμία μα καμία αιτιολόγηση για το πώς ο skynet μπορει να ξέρει όχι μόνο ποιος ειναι ο john connor (που είναι ένας τίποτας στην αρχή, δε θυμάμαι καν τι βαθμό έχει) ούτε οτι ο ρις είναι ο μπαμπάς του.
    τα άλλα είναι facts.
    Talking monkey, yeah, yeah. Came here from the future. Ugly sucker, only says "ficus".



  9. #189
    ρεταλι BURNIN AMBITION's Avatar
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    νομιζεισ. καλθτερα να τα ποθμε απο κοντα.τοθσ αλλοθσ τοθσ μορφςσα
    ποθτανα ολα
    <Mitsmann>
    ολοι ειστε αβαγκαρντς αλλα οταν μπαινει το ΜΠΑΗ ΜΟΥΝΛΑΗΤ ΓΟΥΗ ΡΑΗΝΤ θυμαστε ολοι τι ειστε και απο που ερχεστε



    iola 11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Κατά τ' άλλα, γι αυτόν το λόγο το GoT είναι σειρά με @@. Αν ήταν να κερδάει πάντα ο καλός και ο Ολυμπιακός με το Αιγάλεω, θα βλέπαμε Σβαρτσενέγκερ.

  10. #190
    ρινς antimusic's Avatar
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    χλωμό να βρεθούμε, αν θες απάντα εδώ, σε αγγλικά ή ελληνικά όμως πληζ, την ενδιάμεση δεν την ομιλώ.
    Talking monkey, yeah, yeah. Came here from the future. Ugly sucker, only says "ficus".



  11. #191
    ρεταλι BURNIN AMBITION's Avatar
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    δε θα πας ρε παπαρα φειθ νο μορ? εισαι φολς τοτε
    γυρναω κυριακη τα λεμε τοτε
    ποθτανα ολα
    <Mitsmann>
    ολοι ειστε αβαγκαρντς αλλα οταν μπαινει το ΜΠΑΗ ΜΟΥΝΛΑΗΤ ΓΟΥΗ ΡΑΗΝΤ θυμαστε ολοι τι ειστε και απο που ερχεστε



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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Κατά τ' άλλα, γι αυτόν το λόγο το GoT είναι σειρά με @@. Αν ήταν να κερδάει πάντα ο καλός και ο Ολυμπιακός με το Αιγάλεω, θα βλέπαμε Σβαρτσενέγκερ.

  12. #192
    Senior Member MaX Payne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BURNIN AMBITION View Post
    apisteuta kalo read. ixera arketa diafona se kapoia pou deixnoun oti to palikari kati xanei, alla einai polu polu interesting kai megalo
    enjoy e

    Spoiler
    EXCLUSIVE: WHAT WENT WRONG WITH TERMINATOR SALVATION?


    This article, while about an alternate version of Terminator Salvation, does contain spoilers for the version in theaters now.

    The Terminator Salvation you saw on movie screens this weekend was not always the Terminator Salvation that was meant to be. Like in the franchise itself, history has been changed, and the original script for Terminator Salvation ended up getting gutted. You can still see the outlines of that script in the current film (a form of deja vu, as similar vestigial script elements can be seen in this summer's blockbuster hit Star Trek), but the specifics that might have made Terminator Salvation if not better at least more interesting are gone.

    What caused these massive changes? And what were they? The biggest change came when McG flew to the UK to talk to Christian Bale about starring in the fourth Terminator movie. The director wanted the Batman star to play Marcus Wright, the cyborg protagonist of the script. But Bale focused on another part: John Connor. The only problem is that John Connor had about three minutes of screen time in the entire film; most of Connor's moments were played offscreen. In the original script John Connor was the secretive leader of the Resistance. He lived on the HQ sub, and almost no one saw his face, so as to keep him hidden from the robots. Connor made radio addresses and existed as a legend for the fighting men and women of the Resistance, but in the original script Connor didn't show up onscreen until the last minutes of the movie.

    You may remember in late 2007 when the rumor that Bale was signing on to Terminator 4 surfaced there were two competing reports: while Aint It Cool had Bale tipped to play Connor, we had him tipped to play a Terminator. As you can see both are correct; for a little while people involved in the film were assuming that Bale was going to let go of the Connor idea and move over to the Marcus role, but he had something else up his sleeve: massive rewrites to beef up the John Connor role.

    Watching Terminator Salvation as it exists in theaters it's easy to see that this was a bad idea. The script that ended up getting shot never quite finds anything for John Connor to do. If you were to remove Connor from the film, relegating him once again to radio voice over, almost none of the film's plot would be changed. It's likely that the new Connor scenes were the work of Jonathan Nolan, who did do a lot of writing on the film, but who was denied credit by the WGA. The reason would be that all of the work Nolan did was cosmetic - adding Connor scenes that had no bearing on the film's structure or plot.

    Bale's desire to star as John Connor was probably the most fatal blow to the film; it completely distorted the shape of the story as it existed. But the other fatal blow came from the internet. When the original ending of the script leaked - John Connor is killed by a Terminator and has his skin grafted onto Marcus Wright, who takes up the shadowy leader's place as the leader of the Resistance - many people went crazy. On the surface it seemed like a major slap in the face of the franchise, and doubly so on paper: John Connor, the guy who the entire franchise is ostensibly about, shows up for two and a half pages, gets killed and has his face transplanted onto a robot (in the original script it's actually just the face that gets slapped on Marcus).

    There are differing reports as to how far that ending made it. McG has gone on the record again and again saying that was never the ending he wanted (he came on to the project after the script we're talking about here was written), but there's a lot of contrary evidence, including on-set reports that have 'Connor becomes robot' written on production calendars. The entire finished film itself feels like evidence that the original ending was always the intended ending. The movie seems to be inexorably building towards the 'Connor dies' finale, including elements like endless scenes featuring Sarah Connor's tapes, obviously intended to give Marcus/Connor a primer on John Connor's life and destiny. In fact, when John Connor got a pole through the chest I was excited - had McG been lying to us all along and kept the original ending?

    Of course he wasn't. The film's biggest weakness comes in the final minutes, which feel almost completely slapped on, as the character we've been following makes a sudden and boring sacrifice. The air just explodes out of the movie as John Connor's rescue feels utterly unearned, and the ending of the movie is so final that you walk out of the theater not caring whether or not the future war is ever again revisited.

    So what might have been? Before the Bale rewrites and before the internet kiboshed the original ending?

    With John Connor relegated to the shadows for most of the film, the original Terminator Salvation focused more on the relationship between Kyle and Marcus. Star was always there, and was essentially always just as useless, but without the constant cutaways to pointless Connor scenes the film was able to delve more into Kyle/Marcus. The script spent time examining what it was like living in a post-apocalyptic world, and was more definitively R-rated. At the gas station Marcus saves Kyle and Star from a group of cannibals, throwing one of them into an open fire (intended as a callback to the biker on the stove in T2. It's important to note that the original script by extraordinary hacks Brancato and Ferris - the guys who wrote The Net, Catwoman and Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines - is not some discarded gem. It's got plenty of problems of its own).

    But again, with Connor out of the script the relationship between Kyle and Marcus gets to grow, which gives Marcus' later quest to rescue Kyle more weight. And the early scenes where Kyle can't drive are paid off in this script, first with a sequence where Marcus teaches him to drive and later, in the third act, where Kyle gets the final heroic beat he's missing in the finished film.

    As in the final film Kyle and Star are captured by Skynet and transported to Skynet City, but with one major change: Skynet has no idea who Kyle Reese is. This is a point that bothers many viewers of the final film; I'm not radically concerned, as Kyle Reese's time traveling shenanigans are public record enough that it's believable Skynet would have found out about him while taking over the world's computer networks. But by having Skynet not know who Kyle is the original script removes the machines' idiotic plan to bring John Connor to Skynet City instead of simply killing his dad. This feels like the kind of change that was made to give John Connor more to do, since the whole sequence where Connor convinces the Resistance forces to step down doesn't occur in this script (and why would it? He's Michael Ironsides in this movie).

    Marcus' adventures with Blair are slightly different. In the original script he saves Blair from a pack of rabid wolves as opposed to horny rapists. This scene was important because it gives Marcus his first awareness that he's much faster and stronger than he used to be, something he couldn't quite prove against humans in a PG-13 movie (although could you wreck a group of wolves in a PG-13 movie?). In the finished film Blair and Marcus have a tender moment; the original script takes things very, very differently: Blair offers Marcus a STAF. That's Sit Tight And Fuck, a phrase in common use in the Resistance. See, it's a horrible, miserable future and the humans of the time have gotten over their petty prudery. If the only joy they can get is fucking, why not take it? Life is cheap and they may not live to see the next night, so tap whatever ass you can.

    The next big change comes when Marcus is captured by the Resistance. John Connor remains offscreen and he interrogates Marcus via com-link. But Connor is thinking like the John Connor who has become used to temporal assassination attempts, and he believes that Marcus has been sent from an even more advanced future to kill him. Meanwhile, we have more cutaways to Kyle Reese being transported to Skynet City; this script really forwards Reese in a way that the finished movie fails to do.

    Marcus escapes the Resistance more or less as seen in the finished and heads to Skynet City. And it's here that the major changes really come into play.

    In the original script the title Terminator Salvation actually meant something. Watching the finished film it's hard to figure out why it has that name - is it because Marcus saves Connor's life in the last minute? In the original script Serena has a bigger role than a quick cameo, and she explains the salvation element.
    BURNIN που τοχες βρει αυτο?
    σαυτα που λεει ειδικα αυτο πιστευω θα χε ενα ενδιαφερον In the original script John Connor was the secretive leader of the Resistance. He lived on the HQ sub, and almost no one saw his face, so as to keep him hidden from the robots. Connor made radio addresses and existed as a legend for the fighting men and women of the Resistance, but in the original script Connor didn't show up onscreen until the last minutes of the movie.

    και ναπαιζε ο Bale τον Marcus
    και ο Βale δεχτηκε να παιξει γιατι θαταν πιο character-based υποτιθεται το σεναριο αλλα αρχιδια μονο ο Marcus κατι ελεγε
    Κονορ,συζυγος,Resistance οι υπολοιποι λιγα πραματα

  13. #193
    ρεταλι BURNIN AMBITION's Avatar
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    re su de thumamai poy to eixa vrei alla htan epishmo. dustuxws legetai polu entona oti uphrxe allo telos sto salvation alla epeidh leakare katsan kai kanan allages sto story kai sto montaz kai eides auth thn telikh morfh ...
    tespa egw perimenw tis kommenes skhnes gia na krinw
    ποθτανα ολα
    <Mitsmann>
    ολοι ειστε αβαγκαρντς αλλα οταν μπαινει το ΜΠΑΗ ΜΟΥΝΛΑΗΤ ΓΟΥΗ ΡΑΗΝΤ θυμαστε ολοι τι ειστε και απο που ερχεστε



    iola 11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Κατά τ' άλλα, γι αυτόν το λόγο το GoT είναι σειρά με @@. Αν ήταν να κερδάει πάντα ο καλός και ο Ολυμπιακός με το Αιγάλεω, θα βλέπαμε Σβαρτσενέγκερ.

  14. #194
    Industrial Might & Magic casshern's Avatar
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    Πωπω, μόλις το είδα και μέχουν πιάσει τρεμοκαύλες !
    Διαολεμένα καλό, δηλαδή ανέλπιστα.

    Ό,τι πρέπει για πρή-ντέρμπυ σέσσιον.
    Resistance is useless

  15. #195
    ρεταλι BURNIN AMBITION's Avatar
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    etsi porwse mas
    katevase to se blue ray gia akoma poiotikoteres kaules
    ποθτανα ολα
    <Mitsmann>
    ολοι ειστε αβαγκαρντς αλλα οταν μπαινει το ΜΠΑΗ ΜΟΥΝΛΑΗΤ ΓΟΥΗ ΡΑΗΝΤ θυμαστε ολοι τι ειστε και απο που ερχεστε



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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Κατά τ' άλλα, γι αυτόν το λόγο το GoT είναι σειρά με @@. Αν ήταν να κερδάει πάντα ο καλός και ο Ολυμπιακός με το Αιγάλεω, θα βλέπαμε Σβαρτσενέγκερ.

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