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Thread: Μια ακόμα πιο εξαιρετική εποχή.

  1. #3466
    το ραπ μου είναι πρόκληση nikolasfluxus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by statik View Post
    αχ βαχ...

    αυτό είναι ταινιάρα ε

  2. #3467
    read between the lines Shadowking's Avatar
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    http://www.zougla.gr/page.ashx?pid=2&aid=449122&cid=4

    αλληλεγγύη σε ποιον δίνουμε;

    (πάντως σοβαρά, ακούμε δηλώσεις Κίμωνα, τέρας νηφαλιότητας)
    A loaded gun won't set you free.
    So you say.

  3. #3468
    nihil pop metamelia3's Avatar
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    σε κανεναν. ας σκοτωνονται μεταξυ τους τα ζωα.
    this is radio freedom.

  4. #3469
    αντιπαθΗς Γκουλαγκ's Avatar
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    Ο σύντροφος Κουλούρης είναι προφανώς κομάντο του ΕΑ.

  5. #3470
    Συνεργάτης Β. Τσιβιλίκα Kaserinos's Avatar
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    για αυτους που ξεχνουν...

    Προφητείες Γέροντος Παισίου: Να τι θα γίνει στο Αιγαίο και πότε!

    http://www.newsbomb.gr/blogs/story/1...igaio-kai-pote
    Last edited by Kaserinos; 10-01-2012 at 23:49.

  6. #3471
    Δράκος ikonoklast's Avatar
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  7. #3472
    Señor Member Art In Haste's Avatar
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    Τι τρέχει με τους Έλληνες;

    Ντοκυμάντερ της Αλεξάνδρας Πασχαλίδου για την Σουηδική τηλεόραση.


  8. #3473
    The Patient H.'s Avatar
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    Πλάκα πλάκα αυτό σκεφτόμουν όσο έβλεπα το αδιάφορο κατά τα άλλα ντοκιουμένταρυ.
    Quote Originally Posted by FIXXXER View Post
    Anagkastika stirizoume Hillary





  9. #3474

    Default

    "σου μιλαει ο νιβο"


    "Society, have mercy one me
    i hope you're not angry, if i disagree..."

  10. #3475
    Defunct Economist
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    Τα τελευταία άρθρα ακαδημαικών οικονομολόγων για την ελλάδα:

    Cochrane (Σκουλίκι του σικάγο):

    Spoiler
    Two weeks ago I wrote the following in a little Bloomberg column about the Euro
    Defenders [of devaluation] think that devaluing would fool workers into a bout of “competitiveness,” as if people wouldn’t realize they were being paid in Monopoly money. If devaluing the currency made countries competitive, Zimbabwe would be the richest country on Earth. No Chicago voter would want the governor of Illinois to be able to devalue his way out of his state’s budget and economic troubles. Why do economists think Greek politicians are so much wiser?
    This paragraph set off a little kerfuffle in the Cochrane-is-a-moron section of the blogosphere. I won't respond in detail, because I presume you're more interested in economics than what anyone thinks of anyone else's intelligence.

    But the paragraph was mighty distilled, and the evident interest in the question suggests a little fuller examination of whether devaluation is a good idea or not for a country like Greece, and trying to understand why people come to such different views.

    I think I can sum it up this way: Devaluation is like a cigarette. [...]

    So, just how good is a cigarette anyway?

    Devaluation works if prices and wages don't adjust. If the Drachma goes from 1:1 Euros to 2:1 Euros and Greek prices and wages double, nothing happens. On the other hand, if prices and wages don't change, then Greek goods are cheaper and Greece will produce and export more. Similarly, inflation can goose output a bit. For example, if prices go up faster than wages, then companies will hire more workers and make more goods. [...]

    So, sometimes devaluation or inflation work, at least temporarily. We've known this for a long time. [...]

    And devaluation and inflation often don't work, or are indeed counterproductive. The US and many other countries in the 1970s experienced stagflation -- devaluation and inflation accompanied by worse economic performance. Most economic basket cases -- Zimbabwe was my example -- are junkies, continually inflating and devaluing. Most really successful countries -- Switzerland -- are famous for strong currencies. We've known that for a long time as well.

    When does devaluation work? The most important consideration suggested by modern macroeconomics is whether the devaluation or inflation is expected or unexpected. This is the heart of Milton Friedman's famous AEA presidential address, and Bob Lucas' and Edmund Phelps' Nobel prizes. (Standard disclaimer.)

    This will likely not work: the Greek government declares that on January 1 2013 it will change from Euros to New Drachmas at 2:1. I think we would all predict that "devaluing" in this way would have exactly the same effect on real prices and wages as joining the Euro did: none. On Jan 1 2013, prices, wages, contracts, bank accounts, etc. are just multiplied by 2 and a "D" replaces the "E" in front of the number. Whatever "price stickiness" means, this isn't it.

    If the Greek government went on, "and then we will devalue the Drachma relative to the Euro by 5 percent per month," it still would have little real effect. With that announcement and a year to plan, Greece would simply return to an economy familiar to anyone who lived through the 1970s, steady 5% wage and price inflation.

    The trick for Greece, in its current situation, is to change to a New Drachma, and convince everyone that new Drachma will have a stable value. Then, it has to surprise everyone by devaluing, or devaluing more than they expected.

    That will be difficult to arrange. It could easily backfire. People could expect much more inflation and devaluation than the Government had planned. Money could fly out of the country, interest rates spike, and a panic wage and price inflation take off. Then Greece would get stagflation, not a boom.

    Devaluation also "works" by engineering wealth transfers, from lenders to borrowers. But you have to surprise the wealth in order to transfer it.

    So, devaluation is not an "always and everywhere" proposition. Yes, if the US were to announce that we are pegging the dollar at $2 per euro, and the ECB went along with this policy, it's a good bet that prices and wages would not adjust overnight. Dollar goods would be cheaper in Europe, and the US would export more and import less for quite a while. Countries, who already have their own currencies, a good reputation, and stable values, can devalue unexpectedly and boost exports and output. It does not follow that a return to the Drachma and devaluation will work for Greece.

    The experience of small countries around the Eurozone is also not immediately applicable. They already have currencies. The combination of leaving a currency union, establishing a new currency and immediately devaluing it does not have much precedent. And for every Iceland, where devaluation helped, there is a Hungary, where it does not seem to be producing riches.

    I don't deny that it could be done. But it's not so easy as the devaluation camp makes it sound.

    But that's not even the main issue. How did I let the teenager drag me in to talking about how good it feels to smoke that first cigarette? Back to the nagging parent: is smoking a good lifestyle decision?

    Is it better over the long run for a country like Greece to have its own currency, and routinely resort to devaluation and currency depreciation when its economy is in the doldrums or the government is discovered to have overborrowed? Or is it better to stick with the Euro, and rule that option out? Greece has plenty of experience with inflation, devaluation, and default. Much of the world was on a binge of inflation and depreciation in the 1970s. It didn't work out so well.

    This is where modern macroeconomists and Keynesians start talking different languages. Modern macro discussions are full of words like "precommitment," "rules vs. discretion," "dynamic efficiency" that are absent in the cigarette-by-cigarette, live-for-today-for-in-the-long-run-we're-dead mode of Keynesian thinking.

    Just one example: Before Greece joined the Euro, it paid very high interest rates. When it joined the Euro, all of a sudden it was able to borrow at German interest rates. It did, massively, as we know. Porsches went South, and pieces of paper flew North. Greece boomed. If the money had been properly invested, Greece would still be booming. The money was wasted, but the opportunity was there.

    Now, why did joining the Euro give Greece this opportunity to borrow at low rates? Cynics say, because the Eurozone meant eveyrone thought Germany would bail them out, as people correctly expected the US to bail out Fannie and Freddie. But even I am not that cynical. The Eurozone was set up, remember, specifically denying sovereign bailouts.

    A second explanation seems more plausible to me: by joining the Euro, Greece precommitted against devaluation. It could no longer take the easy way out. If the economy got in trouble, Greece would feel much more pressure to fix it, not to rely once again on a quick bout of devaluation. If the government got in trouble, it would have to deal with a messy default, not a quick depreciation. And the Eurozone makes that default harder than Greece's many previous sovereign defaults.(A short history by Benn Steil here.)

    Nonsmokers get lower health-insurance premiums. Non-devaluers get cheaper loans. Precommittment has real benefits. We've known that for a long time too, at least since Ulysses had himself tied to the mast so he could hear the sirens.

    Furthermore, countries like Greece with chronic devaluation and inflation routinely resort to capital controls, price controls, exchange rate controls and other interventions to prop up their currencies. Junkies start stealing. These steps ruin small open economies.



    Krugman (Princeton University):

    Spoiler
    The WaPo has a heartrending story on the suffering being imposed on ordinary Greeks. So much for the doctrine of expansionary austerity.

    I do have a small bone to pick, however. Here’s the discussion of why such harsh austerity is being imposed:

    European powers, led by fiscally conservative Germany, have been insisting that Greece correct years of mismanagement by enacting swift waves of cuts and other major economic reforms to regain the confidence of investors and ensure the integrity of the euro. Slashing the deficit quickly is essential to ushering in a sustainable future, they have argued, and the resulting social pain is necessary to impress on Greek politicians and society that such excesses should never happen again.

    Most of that is right — but not the bit about regaining the confidence of investors — or at any rate, that’s not what it’s about these days. For it’s quite clear that at this point investor confidence is unregainable. Greek borrowing costs aren’t coming down to affordable levels for a very long time.

    So now the austerity isn’t market-driven — it’s political, the pound of flesh official lenders are demanding for maintaining the trickle of cash. And it really is in large part about punishment; we’ve now seen a fairly impressive demonstration that big budget cuts in a depressed economy hardly even reduce the deficit, because they drive the economy down and tax receipts with it.

    I really don’t see how this can continue. But, you say, the alternative is default and a euro exit. Well, that’s a terrible scenario — but how can it be worse than what’s happening now?
    Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.
    J. M. Keynes.

  11. #3476
    Συνεργάτης Β. Τσιβιλίκα Kaserinos's Avatar
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    ο πρωτος σκουλικι και στο πανεπιστημιο του Σικαγο, ο δευτερος απλα πανεπιστημιο.

    καθε αγορι, εχει τον ηρωα του.

  12. #3477
    Defunct Economist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaserinos View Post
    ο πρωτος σκουλικι και στο πανεπιστημιο του Σικαγο, ο δευτερος απλα πανεπιστημιο.

    καθε αγορι, εχει τον ηρωα του.
    Νομιζω οτι με βάση το νούμερο των καθυστερημένων που μου προσάπτουν κατηγορίες για πράγματα που δεν έχω πει, εχει κάποια λογική οταν αναπαράγω μια αποψη και θεωρώ τον φέροντα της σκουλίκι να το δηλώνω. Γιατι διαφορετικά ποιος ξερει ποιος καθυστερημένος θα βγει και θα πει οτι ο κατώριμος υποστηρίζει τα σκουλίκια του σικάγο και θα κουοτάρει το αποπάνω ποστ και θα φάμε παλι 3 σελίδες που θα βριζόμαστε χωρίς λόγο. Καλύτερα δεν είναι έτσι?

    Α, και δεν έχω κάτι εναντίον του πανεπιστημίου του σικάγο γενικά, έχω αναφερθεί θετικά για πολύ κοσμο απο κει μεσα οπως ο Μπέκερ, ο Φριντμαν και ο Σλάιφερ, μόνο κατά των σκουλικιών του πανεπιστημίου.
    Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.
    J. M. Keynes.

  13. #3478
    Συνεργάτης Β. Τσιβιλίκα Kaserinos's Avatar
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    ναι ρε katwrimos, ξερουμε τι φυντανια εχει βγαλει "Η Σχολη Του Σικαγο". cool.

    ηταν μπαλαντερ Krugman, που με εκανε και λυγισα ομως.

  14. #3479
    φτερησλέξ Tispanagias tamatia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saloth sar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by katwrimos View Post
    Α, και δεν έχω κάτι εναντίον του πανεπιστημίου του σικάγο γενικά, έχω αναφερθεί θετικά για πολύ κοσμο απο κει μεσα οπως ο Μπέκερ, ο Φριντμαν και ο Σλάιφερ.
    Αυτη η φραση μπορει και θα χρησιμοποιηθει εναντιον σου σε μελλοντικη συζητηση.
    Ρε συ, εδώ είχε γράψει ότι συμπαθεί και τους 4 (+όσους έχουν παίξει ΑΜΑΝ και κομφούζιο το οποίο έβλεπε ως 12χρονος πιτσιρικάς, ναι αμε!!) ως άτομα...

  15. #3480
    Senior Member Harbinger of Death's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikonoklast View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by σχόλιο
    Ή μπορεί ο Κίμων ή κάποιος ανώνυμος ή επώνυμος αρθογράφος της Κ να υποστηρίξει ότι η όλη σχετική δημόσια ταραχή και κατακραυγή είναι συκοφαντικό έργο, ραδιουργία των αντιμνημονιακών που προσπαθούν να πάνε την Ελλάδα στην καταστροφή.Ή Κίμων ή Δραχμή και Καταστροφή δηλαδή κατά τα γνωστά.

    Πχ ειδικώτερα μπορεί να υποστηριχθεί ότι οι εν λόγω αστυνομικοί είναι κατώτερα στελέχη κατάλοιπα του προσφάτως υπό του μέχρι πρότινος πρωθυπουργού μας αποτραπέντος πραξικοπήματος των Ε.Δ. και Σ.Α. που επειδή είναι άχρηστοι και τεμπέληδες δημόσιοι υπάλληλοι αντιδρούν στην περικοπή των μισθών τους και των προνομίων τους.
    Οπότε και το επόμενο προτεινόμενο βήμα θα ήταν να αποκρατικοποιηθεί και να απελευθερωθεί το επάγγελμά των αστυνομικών·όλοι σεκιουριτάδες δηλαδή και όλοι ανεξαιρέτως σεκιουριτάδες ή απλοί πολίτες με κουμπούρες στην τσέπη.

    Με λίγη φαντασία και με παντελή αδιαφορία για την εμπειρική πραγματικότητα όλα μπορούν να συνδεθούν,να υποστηριχθούν και να δικαιολογηθούν...
    http://frontierpsycho.tumblr.com/

    Quote Originally Posted by saloth sar View Post
    Το αποκουμπι του κρετινου, του φασιστα και του καθε μαλακα ειναι η προστασια της γυναικας, οταν και αμα σταματουν να τις θεωρουν ολες πουτανες και δυο-τρεις τρυπες για γαμησι μοναχα.

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