View Full Version : [Cinema] The Matrix Revolutions (2003)
Carcass_
06-11-2003, 21:30
Ok to eida xtes , prwth mesa as usual mpitsiz , meshmeraki...
Na pw apla oti an kai hmoun fan tou Reloaded giati polu apla thewrhsa oti phre to senario tou 1 kai to ekane akoma pio epos...
Oswn afora to 3 , epeidh eimai kai eugeniko paidi tha pw oti htan metriotato ( vasika thelw na pw oti einai malakia , sto stoma mou to exw ).
S P O I L E R S ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
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Loipon , aisxos megisto. Kamia roh senariou, to ergo olo pnigmena mesa sta effe kai sthn "drash ". Eniwtha san na evlepa palia SciFi peripeteia , tpt allo.
Gia mia akoma fora katalavame ena monadiko pragma... Oti o kosmos ths ZAION einai kai autos allo ena MATRIX kai oti akoma den exoume dei ton pragmatiko kosmo. O Nyo ( to debug programm mas ) exei meinei pagideumenos metaksu tou matrix sublevel 1 ( kosmos shmerinos ) kai matrix sublevel 2 ( zaion).
Apo ekei kai pera tpt allo. Vasika apo oti ematha to concept tha sunexistei mesw tou paixnidiou Online Matrix.
2 parathrhseis :
a) Giati sthn arxh lene , otan vriskoun to "logos" oti " den uparxei ixnos zwhs , mono mple xapia ? "
b) se auto to matrix o Nyo DEN PAIRNEI kokkino xapi... Sto prwto , me to pou pernei kokkino xapi vlepei to matrix sublebvel 1 kai thn Zaion kai sto deutero ( me thn kokkinh karamela ) sto telos mporei na aisthanthei tis mhxanes kai arxizei na vlepei programmata ston kosmo tou ( matrix sublevel 2 ) alla se auto , enw tou prosferetai ksana xampi, den to pairnei.
Auta
Apogohteush
Astadiala
RoTK twra ( auto den tha mas apogohteusei ).
rincewind2k
06-11-2003, 21:33
oe loipon den to diabasa giati eytyxws eixes spoiler alert, an mporei kapoios as allaksei ton titlo twn dyo threads, as kanei ayto "Matrix: Revolutions *SPOILERS*" kai to allo "Matrix: Revolutions *SPOILER FREE*"
Dragonlord
06-11-2003, 22:02
ti skata posa gamwthreads 8a kanete gia thn kwlotainia aisixtir pa na alla3w kai to allo
fdsfsdagdfs
Aporia.. pou akrivos leei/ennoei/yponnoei oti h Zion den einai real world kai einai "sublevel" tou matrix? Giati ego katalava oti h zion einai real world, to matrix einai fake world kai o Neo sthn arxh eixe pagideytei metaksy tou real world kai tou fake world. Eimai ilithios (h ftaiei h elleipsh ypotitlon)? :P Anousia skhnh kata t'alla :)
Elfstone
07-11-2003, 00:24
Akoma den exw katastalaksei gia to poia einai h apopsh mou gia thn tainia. Prin to dw 2h fora toulaxiston den apofasizw. Merikes parathrhseis mono :
1. Enw eixa peistei oti h Zion einai sub-matrix de ginetai kammia nyksh epi tou thematos sth tainia. Profanws o Neo apokta dynameis ston alhthino kosmo (h oracle tou leei "the powers of the one extend all the way to the source")
2. H skhnh ths poliorkias ths Zion einai apisteuth.
3. H Bellucci se rolo glastras isws de xalase kanenan alla auth kai to ntekolte ths sigoura eprepe na eixan megalytero rolo ;)
4. Ta efe me to nero/vroxh/stagones sthn telikh maxh epishs apisteuta.
5. To aisiodokso telos htan anamenomeno an kai ligo koufo.
Perissotera argotera!
Κι εγώ δε νομίζω πως η Ζάιον είναι κι αυτή ένα matrix (αν και χωρίς τη τρίτη ταινία ακούγεται λογικό, μαζί με το όλο θέμα περί debug). Μάλλον απλά αποκτά δυνάμεις και στον φυσικό κόσμο, σαφώς πιο ξενέρωτη εξήγηση, αλλά δεδομένων των θεολογικών υπαινιγμών δεν είναι και τόσο παράξενο.
Ego pantos apo to 2 yposthriza oti den paizei in-matrix matrix. Par'olo pou genikotera kollouse san concept, mou fainotan poly aploiko. H ekshghsh vevaia htan akoma pio aplh alla den exei na kanei :P
Epishs den katalava xristo apo ta teleytaia 5 lepta. Gamo tous ypotitlous dld. 5 lepta senario eixe to ergo kai to exasa. Pf.. prepei na ksanado to telos.
MoRmEnGiL
07-11-2003, 04:15
matrix mesa se matrix? mpa,no way.apla opws fanhke ki apo thn eidbolh tou smith sto real world,yparxei connection meta3y tou matrix kai real life pio steno apo oso nomizame..alla DEN E3HGEI IKANOPOIHTIKA giati o nyo kafrilliase kai sto real life.h maxh me to smith h tan karaepos,opws kai h defence ths polhs.Ta A.P.U. htan gkaaaaaula! (eipe o gnwstos fanatikos twn japan-mech- fasewn :P)
Jeditraitor
07-11-2003, 14:32
[zER]
Aporia.. pou akrivos leei/ennoei/yponnoei oti h Zion den einai real world kai einai "sublevel" tou matrix? Giati ego katalava oti h zion einai real world, to matrix einai fake world kai o Neo sthn arxh eixe pagideytei metaksy tou real world kai tou fake world. Eimai ilithios (h ftaiei h elleipsh ypotitlon)? :P Anousia skhnh kata t'alla :)
Ante nte....o kathenas vlepei oti thelei mallon
To eida k egw extes k apogoiteutika.... perimena kati diaforetiko :/
chris_boss
07-11-2003, 15:43
Apogoiteusi.
Eutuxws kai oi stagones...
Emena i apopsi mou einai oti eixe kai GAMO tis skinothesies, kai GAMO ta effects, kai GAMO tis fotografies, alla se antithesi me ta duo prota, to senario den eixe anatropes, an kai epifulassomai prin to xanado. Exo xasei ligo ti bala. Paizoun polla pragmata pou mallon den exoume katalavei. Auto me ta ble xapia oute ego to katalava re gamoto. Ena einai to sigouro, toulaxiston gia mena. Tin tainia kai tis skines tis tin skeftomai sunexeia apo tin Pempti pou tin eida, auto simainei oti tha ginei apo tis agapimenes mou suntoma. Otan o Neo pigainei stin poli ton mixanon einai i kaluteri isos skini tou Matrix.
Episis, de nomizo oti exei mesa theologikes anafores kai uponooumena.... apla o Neo einai toso gamias pou exei katalavei oxi mono ton tropo leitourgias tou Matrix, alla kai ton tropo leitourgias tis fusis ston pragmatiko kosmo, me sunepeia na exei anaptuxei exopragmatikes dunameis. Apla kapou ekei i tainia ginetai perissotero fantasias apo oso tha ithela, alla tous sugxoro giati to edeixan me gamato tropo.
Και τα 3 Matrix έχουν συνέχεια θεολογικούς υπαινιγμούς. Το σταυρό μετά την μάχη του Neo με τον Smith τον πρόσεξες; :)
The_Emperor
09-11-2003, 15:53
Και τα 3 Matrix έχουν συνέχεια θεολογικούς υπαινιγμούς. Το σταυρό μετά την μάχη του Neo με τον Smith τον πρόσεξες; :)
totally agree...kai olo to concept me to mesia, thn profhth, to dhmioyrgo, ton smith (antixristo), h polh ton mhxanon os kolash...h maxh toy kalou me to kako ktl ktl
Nai, oloi autoi einai sumbolismoi, alla de xero kata poso i tainia proupothetei tin uparxi tou uperfusikou...
rincewind2k
09-11-2003, 17:25
loipon thn eida ki egw epitelous. Prin apo ola na pw oti mou arese. Mexri th maxh me ton Bane me kourase ligo giati hmoun kai xalia, alla meta apo ayto kai eidika apo tote pou arxise h eisbolh h tainioula gamhse apisteyta.
Kai nai men isws fainetai oti olh h tainia einai mia maxh ousiastika, alla mhn ksexnate oti eixe alles dyo tainies gia na anaptyxthei to senario. Opote twra mas dinetai h koryfwsh, ayto pou perimenoume apo thn arxh.
Oson afora to ti paixthke telika, oute kai egw exw safh apanthsh (mexri na to dw polles fores akoma), kai den nomizw pws htan ayto stis protheseis twn dhmiourgwn. Pio poly hthelimena to afhsan ligo sto flou, akoma ki an fanhke pws to telos einai symbibastiko or whatever.
Pragma pou den isxyei, afou osoi perimenan ton Neo na ginei o super duper champion of earth kai na katastrepsei me thn skepsh tous tis kakes mhxanes are in for a surprise (kai mallon aytoi tha einai pou tha thaboun twra thn tainia) Thymhtheite kai ton dialogo me ton senator sto Rel, opou milagan gia allhloeksarthsh kai symbiwsh me tis mhxanes. Kai giati na ginei etsi, sto katw katw, afou oi anthrwpoi "eftaigan" gia ton polemo genikotera, deite Second Renaisance I&II
Akyra eixe merika, opws h anousia megalh skhnh tou thanatou ths malakws, pou kathotan paloukwmenh epi deka lepta kai milage kai th skhnh ths eisbolhs pou nai men emena me afhse malaka, alla isws xreiazontan ligo editing, Alla DEN einai ikana na xalasoun thn tainia se osous pane na doun ena gamato sci-fi action ergo. Osoi perimenan polla parapanw, opws na ksanagraftei h apokalypsh or sth...
Kai matrix-mesa-se-matrix den nomizw na yparxei, apla to Matrix den katastrafhke telika, opws blepoume sto telos, isws malista na egine kai reset
Carcass_
09-11-2003, 17:31
Re gmt, pantws oloi auto nomizame sthn arxh...oti to matrix einai ena terastio leitourgiko susthma me sub-level matrix... skata...toulaxiston akoma auto thelw na pisteuw. Den mporw na dianoithw oti htan toso gia ton poutso. Tespa, to concept sunexizetai mesa apo to online game Matrix...fraaaagkaaaaaaaaaaaa..
rincewind2k
09-11-2003, 17:40
koita h ekshghsh pou (den) dwsane den leei oti prokeitai gia dyo matrix. apla ki wraia, o neo egine theos. twra an ayto to dexteis, 'h an theleis na pisteyeis oti pragmati htan sub-levels einai allo thema (na thymisw btw, oti sto blade runner, h diamaxh gia to an o Deckard einai androeides 'h oxi krathse pollaaaa xronia)
Faithless Spirit
11-11-2003, 00:46
molis eida thn tainia, kai dustixos thn eida sto pc me athlio ho kai xwris upotitlous:P tespa tha thn ksanadw na thn empedwsw..
loipon exoume kai leme, prwta apo ola dexomai oti to reloaded kai to revolutions einai perisotero san mia tainia para san duo.. opote to senario kai ta erwthmata pou dhmiourgounte sto 2 me kalhptoun gia to 3 pou ousiastika stamatas na anarwtiese toso... epishs to 3o mou fanhke polu pio "sumpages" apo to 2, oi skhnes draseis vlepe plakoma neo-smiths sto duo an kai kalh krathse polu kai psilokourase.. kati to opio den eixe sto 3, vevaia eixe pali neo-smiths alla den krathse toso (h toulaxiston etsi mou fanhke) kai vevaia h mazh sthn zion gamhse...
loipon auta twra gia ton neo.. nai men fanhke na pernei dunameis alla den ton eidame oute na petaei oute na perpataei se toixous oute tpt.. ousiastika epiroh panw stis mhxanes eixe... pou ton kouraze kiolas, oxi opws sto matrix...
kai auto me ton smith nai men mporei na upodhlosei oti uparxei kapia sxesh matrix me ton "pragmatiko" kosmo alla apo thn allh meria afou ta programata , oi mhxanes dld mporoun na "zoun" kai na exoun nohmoshnh ktl giati na mhn mporei na epizhsei kai ena prog mesa sto anthrwpino swma?
den kserw genika den me xalase kai mporw na pw oti oi 2 wres perasan arketa grhgora.. an kai pisteuw oti sto telos o neo eprepe na pethanei.. estw sumvolika, tha ekleine polu kalhtera pisteuw... estw na "pethene ws eklektos" tespa..
btw o smith polu gamaw den egine ksafnhka? kai petage kai oti goustare ekane ti sto dialo? entometaksi tous agents tous ksexasane teliws... a kai auto pou me xalase para polu kai sto 2 kai sto 3 einai oti o neo sto telos tou prwtou ekane oti goustare an thimaste ton smith ton eixe skotosei gia plaka sto telos kai upotithete monima.. meta ta ksexnaei afta? kanonika olous eprepe na tous eixe.. auta:P
rincewind2k
11-11-2003, 02:41
ksanadesto
ksanadesta ola
exeis xasei epeisodia
Nai, polla epeisodia. O Neo pethane ontos. O teleutaios Smith gamage giati eixe bei mesa stin Oracle. Episis den eidame pollous agents giati to 70% tou ergou itan ston pragmatiko kosmo, opos eprepe diladi. Episis meta apo polli skepsi apofasisa oti de tha goustara katholou matrix mesa sto matrix, alla episis tha protimousa isos kati allo apo na einai o Neo o gamias ton efta ipeiron KAI ston pragmatiko kosmo. Vevaia apo tin alli, me mia exigisi pou exo dosei ston eauto mou (kai kaneis de borei na mou pei tipota, giati to afisan free to thema) eimai entelos ikanopoiimenos, alla perimeno na mou exigisei kapoios allos kana duo apories, pou isos einai apla etsi opos tis upotheto.
1. Pos eixe pagideutei o Neo metaxy tou matrix kai tou real world?
2. Pos pethane o Smith?
3. Giati den edeixe kolo kai vuzia i Monica?
Tha thela na akouso apopseis apo osous to eidan gia na mou poun giati o Neo gamage kai ston pragmatiko kosmo, kati pou na mou exigei omos xoris na perilamavanei ti frasi: "ela more, tainia einai". Exo mia apantisi, alla den eimai kai sigouros. Episis den pisteuo stin exigisi uparxis theou.
rincewind2k
11-11-2003, 21:25
xm h ekshghsh (pou edwsan sthn tainia) fainetai ligo malakia, alla psilostekei. eipan oti o The One einai syndedemenos me The Source, me liga logia mesa sto kefali tou neo yparxei kati san programma, to opoio telika tou epitrepei na gamaei kai na dernei kai ektos matrix. To opoio to dexesai an skefteis oti kai o Smith "grafthke" sto myalo tou Bane bgainontas apo to matrix. kai mhn ksexname oti o Architect tou leei sto Rel: "although the process has altered your conciousness, you remain human". E sto rev kanei to epomeno bhma
Faithless Spirit
11-11-2003, 23:54
xoum ontos auto me ton neo isws htan ligo akuro shmera pou ksanaeida to telos alla nomizw oti to afhnei psilo flou..
nai re mpike sthn oracle alla h oracle ipotithete oti exei alles dunameis, ektos an ola metafrazontai se physical(leme twra) dunamh h ektos an h oracle petage:P tespa auto den einai kai toso sumantiko mporeis na doseis polles erminies..
ok kai me tous agents ti na ekanan kai autoi afou oi alloi gamagan alla apo to ena upotithete oti eixan kapio skopo.. ego tha ithela na dw merikous "upgrated" agents (oxi upgrated opws sto 2..) dld an eixan thn klasikh taxuthta kai kana ability opws auto pou eixan oi asproi tupades tou galou (:p ) gia na gamhsoun ton smith monoi tous:P
alla mallon prepei na katsw na dw kai ta 3 sthn seira kapia stigmh tespa... apo osa aegrapsa epanw pali kapia mporei na einai akura epidi ksanalew den to eida kinhmatografo(oxi apo oikonomia..) to katevasa kai exei skatopoiothta.. idiaitera ston hxo kai profanos den exei upotitlous.. tespa den htan toso dusnohto pantos oso to 2 apla prepei na aktseis na ta psilo sunopsiseis ola mou fainetai...
Magellan
12-11-2003, 02:41
ntaksi i belucci itan 8ea 8ea 8ea.......ligo kolaraki parapanw 8a ekanan tin tainia teleia
gia ta erwtimata tou fixxxer exw kapoies apantiseis alla einai arga kai barieme na grafw katebata.....
1. Pos eixe pagideutei o Neo metaxy tou matrix kai tou real world?
2. Pos pethane o Smith?
3. Giati den edeixe kolo kai vuzia i Monica?
1.
Tora pou to skeftomai oute ego to exo polykatalavei. H ousia einai oti yparxoun 3 kosmoi: real world, matrix world kai o endiamesos, o opoios elegxetai apo ton Merovingian kai ton roufiano tou ton Trainman.
Ston proto katoikoun oi anthropoi kai oi mhxanes. O 2os einai fantastikos pou proypothetei kapoion "linked" apo ton real world, eno ston teleytaio katoikoun ta programmata (ola ayta apoteloun prosopikh mou ektimhsh).
O Neo katafere na pagideytei ston endiameso kosmo, mallon prospathontas (isos den prospathise, apla etyxe) na eisxorhsei sto matrix xoris to aparaithto link. Sto ergo leei oti oi leitourgies tou einai opos kapoiou pou einai mesa sto matrix, mono pou den einai syndedemenos.
2.
H Oracle leei ston Neo oti eno o Architect eksisorropei thn eksisosh, ekeinh thn "apo-isorropei". Epishs leei oti prepei kai ekeinh na parei thn apofash ths, opos kai o Neo. H apofash ths einai telika na paradothei ston Smith kai ekeinos thn katalamvanei.
Sth maxh Smith-Neo, o protos vlepei mesa apo ta matia ths Oracle thn "katalhksh" ths maxhs. Einai se eisagogika, giati de mporei na dei the very end of it, kathos eksartatai apo thn epilogh tou Neo (thymitheite prohgoumena logia ths Oracle peri epiloghs).
Ekei kollane kai oi "akatalavistikes" atakes tou Smith sto sygkekrimeno shmeio: "..we already know that I'm the one that beats you... Wait. I've seen this. You were laying right there, like that, I... stand here, right here, I'm supposed to say something. I say... Everything that has a beginning has an end, Neo."
Logia ths Oracle, pou ypenthymizoun ston Neo ti prepei na kanei. Na "apo-isorrophsei" thn eksisosh. Etsi paradidetai kai o Neo ston Smith kai akolouthei h alysidoth antidrash pou katastrefei thn isorropia kalou-kakou kai mazi kai ton idio ton Smith (alla kai ton Neo).
Όσον αφορά τον ενδιάμεσο κόσμο (Trainman, κ.λ.π.), μάλλον απλά είναι ένα bus μεταξύ του συστήματος του Matrix και του υπόλοιπου υπολογιστικού συστήματος των μηχανών.
E tespa kati tetoio. Syndeei tous 2 kosmous kai einai h diadromh pou PREPEI na akolouthiseis prokeimenou na metafertheis apo ton ena ston allon. Voliko :)
Ok to eida xtes , prwth mesa as usual mpitsiz , meshmeraki...
Na pw apla oti an kai hmoun fan tou Reloaded giati polu apla thewrhsa oti phre to senario tou 1 kai to ekane akoma pio epos...
Oswn afora to 3 , epeidh eimai kai eugeniko paidi tha pw oti htan metriotato ( vasika thelw na pw oti einai malakia , sto stoma mou to exw ).
S P O I L E R S ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Loipon , aisxos megisto. Kamia roh senariou, to ergo olo pnigmena mesa sta effe kai sthn "drash ". Eniwtha san na evlepa palia SciFi peripeteia , tpt allo.
Gia mia akoma fora katalavame ena monadiko pragma... Oti o kosmos ths ZAION einai kai autos allo ena MATRIX kai oti akoma den exoume dei ton pragmatiko kosmo. O Nyo ( to debug programm mas ) exei meinei pagideumenos metaksu tou matrix sublevel 1 ( kosmos shmerinos ) kai matrix sublevel 2 ( zaion).
Apo ekei kai pera tpt allo. Vasika apo oti ematha to concept tha sunexistei mesw tou paixnidiou Online Matrix.
2 parathrhseis :
a) Giati sthn arxh lene , otan vriskoun to "logos" oti " den uparxei ixnos zwhs , mono mple xapia ? "
b) se auto to matrix o Nyo DEN PAIRNEI kokkino xapi... Sto prwto , me to pou pernei kokkino xapi vlepei to matrix sublebvel 1 kai thn Zaion kai sto deutero ( me thn kokkinh karamela ) sto telos mporei na aisthanthei tis mhxanes kai arxizei na vlepei programmata ston kosmo tou ( matrix sublevel 2 ) alla se auto , enw tou prosferetai ksana xampi, den to pairnei.
Auta
Apogohteush
Astadiala
RoTK twra ( auto den tha mas apogohteusei ).
Ta pairnw apo thn arxh: To 3o meros htan to kalytero apo ola. Yphrxe mia issoropia anamesa se afhghsh kai drash an kai perimena perissoteres ekshghseis. Antithetws to 2 pou les oti sou arese (imo to xeirotero) htan ontws phxtra sthn drash, xwris kati ousiwdes pera ton Keymaker kai ton mafiozo Gallo pou einai kai ena alyto mysthrio ths tainias.
Twra, logika h Zyon kai h polh twn Mhxanwn einai o pragmatikos kosmos. Otan htan ekei o Neo den htan plugged in. An thymasai h Oracle tou eixe pei pws tha synanthsei thn phgh (source). Paei loipon sto source pou vrisketai sto Machine city kai ton stelnei sto Matrix gia na vrei ton Smith. Isws vevaia o pragmatikos kosmos na einai allos, alla amfivallw. Mia safhs apanthsh tha vrisketai kapou mesa sta erga, tha ta ksanadw.
Stis parathrhseis.
a)den to parathrhsa ayto, an thes gine pio safhs.
b)Ta exeis mperdepsei ligo. H Zyon den yparxei sto prwto meros. Ennow oti kseroume thn yparksh ths alla den thn vlepoume. Ta 2 xapia htan kathara symvolika sto 1o meros. Apla tou edwsan epilogh an tha tous akolouthisei sto Matrix, h an synexisei thn zwh tou ksexnwntas ta ola. Sto 3, pou tou prosferetai xapi?
To RotK tha einai apogoiteysh ki ayto. Hdh eidame sto trailer ton Aragorn na pairnei to spathi ths Gondor (dld na ginetai vasilias) enw sto vivlio ginetai sto telos. Genika ton Aragorn ton exoun gamisei, katharos Amerikanos "hrwas" se tainia Hollywood.
[zER]
Ekei kollane kai oi "akatalavistikes" atakes tou Smith sto sygkekrimeno shmeio: "..we already know that I'm the one that beats you... Wait. I've seen this. You were laying right there, like that, I... stand here, right here, I'm supposed to say something. I say... Everything that has a beginning has an end, Neo."
Logia ths Oracle, pou ypenthymizoun ston Neo ti prepei na kanei. Na "apo-isorrophsei" thn eksisosh. Etsi paradidetai kai o Neo ston Smith kai akolouthei h alysidoth antidrash pou katastrefei thn isorropia kalou-kakou kai mazi kai ton idio ton Smith (alla kai ton Neo).
Egw nomizw to antitheto. Oti h Oracle (pou o ios smith thn eixe katalavei) ta eipe ayta ta logia mesw tou Smith. O smith thn stigmh ekeinh ayto-epevalle ston eayto tou to telos. Giati kai aytos eixe mia arxh. Epeishs sto telos ths maxhs vlepoume thn Oracle lipothymh sto lakko opou vriskotan o Smith. Alla twra pou to skeftomai kai h dikh sou ekdoxh exei mia vash. Mperdema.
@Fixxxer: Pws ginetai o Neo na einai o gamias kai na pethianei sto telos? Emena se ayth th tainia mou thymise ton Xristo (pou polloi tous eixan syndesei hdh apo to prwto meros) pou thysiastike gia thn swthria ths anthrwpothtos. To sigouro einai oti o logos ths epityxias tou Matrix htan o allhgorikos xaraktiras tou. Me to na mhn ksekatharizoun ti akrivws einai o kathenas, to koino mporei na tous syndesei me opoion thelei.
Συμφωνώ. Η Oracle κατάφερε να ελέγχει, ως ένα βαθμό, τον Smith. Αυτο-θυσιάστηκε και αυτή, όπως ο Neo.
Vasika den einai katholou symvolika ta xapia (pisteyo). Sto 1o matrix ekshgei poly kala poia htan h drash tou kokkinou xapiou. De thymamai akrivos, alla tespa se olo to concept ta sygkekrimena xapia einai software pou exoun epidrash sto matrix.
Sto proto to phre o Neo apo ton Morpheus kai htan ayto pou ton "ksypnhse". Sto 2o de thymamai xapi, mono cookie (kai ayto software though). Kai sto 3o tou to prosferei h Oracle kapou pros to telos kai den to pairnei (h mhpos htan cookie ki ayto? mia fora to exo dei, dikaiologoumai :P).
Symfono oti ta xei mperdepsei pantos. Den polykatalava kanena apo ta 2 erothmata tou. Kai epishs to oti mporouse na "aisthanthei tis mhxanes kai arxizei na vlepei programmata ston kosmo tou" den exei kamia sxesh me xapia ktl. An thes mporo na sto ekshghso ki ayto :)
Egw nomizw to antitheto. Oti h Oracle (pou o ios smith thn eixe katalavei) ta eipe ayta ta logia mesw tou Smith. O smith thn stigmh ekeinh ayto-epevalle ston eayto tou to telos. Giati kai aytos eixe mia arxh. Epeishs sto telos ths maxhs vlepoume thn Oracle lipothymh sto lakko opou vriskotan o Smith. Alla twra pou to skeftomai kai h dikh sou ekdoxh exei mia vash. Mperdema.
Ehm.. oson afora to proto meros, ayto eipa ki ego. Oti h Oracle yperisxyse pros stigmhn tou Smith kai vghkan ayta ta logia, ta opoia ksypnhsan kata kapoion tropo ton Neo. Ostoso diafono sto oti aytokatastrafhke. Pos ekshgeitai o thanatos tou Neo tote? Apo to poly ksylo? Mallon den yphrxe allos tropos na pethanei kapoios apo tous 2, ektos apo ayto pou eipa. Tespa... kaneis den kserei.. aples ypotheseis kanoume :)
Faithless Spirit
13-11-2003, 00:20
xm h oracle sto telos den deixnei na pethenei.. afou exei mia teleftaia shzhthsh me ton architect..
sthn deuterh tainia h oracle tou prosferei mia karamela sthn skhnhs to pagaki prin skasoun oi smiths, kai troei kai auth mia:P opws kai sto 3
twra gia to rotk an kai komataki asxeto alla o aragorn to spathi sto vivlio to eixe sto sumvoulio tou elrond opou kai to parousiase, den "egine" vasilias tote apla angnwristhke ws dikaiomatikos katoxos tou thronou opws egine kai sthn tainia dld..
Nai ontos, tora thymithika to "candy" ths Oracle apo to 2. Kai sto 3 to idio leei? De thymamai. Tespa opos kai na xei (pill/cookie/candy/whatever) einai ena eidos software (kati san patch). Toulaxiston ego ayto exo katalavei.
Oso gia to LOTR, opoios phgainei na dei to vivlio (ta vivlia even) sth megalh othonh einai mallon afelhs. Einai mia tainia vasismenh sta vivlia kai that's all. Mhn perimenete akrivh metafora, eidika efoson prokeitai gia toso megalh paragogh. Ego prosopika tha protimousa na ksefeyge akoma perissotero apo ta vivlia. Ksenerosa th zoh mou sth skhnh me ta Entz (h opos grafontai) sto 2. Ase pou o Tolkien me ekneyrizei genikotera :P
rincewind2k
13-11-2003, 02:13
tolkien is gay :)
to xapi einai mallon asxeto, ayto pou psaxnete einai to cookie pou trwei o neo *kai* sto prwto matrix, bgainontas apo to diamerisma ths oracle. ("once you're done eating that you'll feel right as rain" or sth)
Mou perase kai apo to myalo oti o Neo ginetai "update" (se "the one" ektos matrix) otan erxetai se epafh me ton Smith sto burly brawl. leei "it felt like I was back in that hall, it felt like dying = otan "anasththike" ws "the one" sto telos tou 1, alla it's a long shot. mallon tha meinw sth thewria twn mpiskotwn
a sto telos, o smith, nai men kserei ti ginetai mexri ekeino to shmeio, oti nikaei, alla den mporei na kserei ti ginetai meta giati den mporei na katalabei thn epilogh tou Neo na synexizei na polema/antisteketai (can't see past the choice he can't understand)
Agreed se ola.. you got the point.
Oso gia tis dynameis tou Neo ektos Matrix sto Reloaded: Thymaste pou tou dinei ena koutali o typakos (aytos o prhxths pou de thymamai to onoma tou)? Einai lygismeno.. opos kai sto 1o Matrix otan episkeptetai thn Oracle gia proth fora kai synantaei to paidaki pou lygizei koutalia. "You have to realize the truth... there is no spoon".
Mono pou edo eimaste ektos Matrix. Etsi syneidhtopoiei oti kati paizei kai ektos Matrix kai prospathei na stamathsei tis mhxanes. Mono pou sto real world eksantleitai kanontas tarzanilikia.
Kveldssanger
15-11-2003, 00:07
Dyo mikres parathrhseis ligo asxetes me to senario tis tainias, gyro apo to opoio peristrefetai h syzitisi...
1on H skini pou o Neo kai h Trinity kateythynontai pros tin Machine City, de thymizei tis ptiseis sto Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within?
2on H teliki monomaxia me to Smith den moiazei sa na einai vgalmeni apo epeisodeio tou Dragonball Z?
Faithless Spirit
15-11-2003, 01:09
emena h teleutaia maxh mou thimise psychic force (paixnidi tou ps 1) :P
sto duo den thimame na trwei kanena koulouraki... kai sto prwto den fanhke na ton epirazei kai idiaitera.. tespa
telika ti egine pisteuetai oti psofise o neo h mpa? ego den eida na to leei pouthena ksekathara.. vevaia mou leipei akoma mia protash apo to puzzle tou telous:P alla den nomizo na einai kai toso zwtikhs shmasias..
xm auto me to koutali den nomizw na exei kamia idiaiterh sxesh emena apla mou edose thn enthposh oti apla thimise ston neo to paidaki, oxi oti tou dinei kanena clue gia ton kosmo.. ase pou apo oti thimame to koutali htan olo kapws periergo.. san na to eixan sfurilathsh
a kai kati psiloasxeto.. thimate kaneis an dinei kanena clue pouthena gia to pou vriskoun trofh osoi zoun sthn zyon? oxi oti exei kai kamia idiaiterh shmasia...
Nai einai san sfyrilathmeno ontos, epeidh htan lygismeno noritera :P Toulaxiston ego ayto exo katalavei.
To pou vriskoun fai einai eykolo. Apo ta ptomata oson pethainoun :P
Elfstone
16-11-2003, 04:15
Apta ptwmata trefontai osoi einai syndemenoi sto Matrix (fantazomai oxi apokleistika giati apokleietai na ftanoun gia trofh!). Osoi zoun sthn Zion mallon trwne kati synthetikes trofes (pou moiazei me ena mpol myksas! thymaste to prwto Matrix?).
[zER]
1. Pos eixe pagideutei o Neo metaxy tou matrix kai tou real world?
2. Pos pethane o Smith?
3. Giati den edeixe kolo kai vuzia i Monica?
1.
Tora pou to skeftomai oute ego to exo polykatalavei. H ousia einai oti yparxoun 3 kosmoi: real world, matrix world kai o endiamesos, o opoios elegxetai apo ton Merovingian kai ton roufiano tou ton Trainman.
Ston proto katoikoun oi anthropoi kai oi mhxanes. O 2os einai fantastikos pou proypothetei kapoion "linked" apo ton real world, eno ston teleytaio katoikoun ta programmata (ola ayta apoteloun prosopikh mou ektimhsh).
O Neo katafere na pagideytei ston endiameso kosmo, mallon prospathontas (isos den prospathise, apla etyxe) na eisxorhsei sto matrix xoris to aparaithto link. Sto ergo leei oti oi leitourgies tou einai opos kapoiou pou einai mesa sto matrix, mono pou den einai syndedemenos.
2.
H Oracle leei ston Neo oti eno o Architect eksisorropei thn eksisosh, ekeinh thn "apo-isorropei". Epishs leei oti prepei kai ekeinh na parei thn apofash ths, opos kai o Neo. H apofash ths einai telika na paradothei ston Smith kai ekeinos thn katalamvanei.
Sth maxh Smith-Neo, o protos vlepei mesa apo ta matia ths Oracle thn "katalhksh" ths maxhs. Einai se eisagogika, giati de mporei na dei the very end of it, kathos eksartatai apo thn epilogh tou Neo (thymitheite prohgoumena logia ths Oracle peri epiloghs).
Ekei kollane kai oi "akatalavistikes" atakes tou Smith sto sygkekrimeno shmeio: "..we already know that I'm the one that beats you... Wait. I've seen this. You were laying right there, like that, I... stand here, right here, I'm supposed to say something. I say... Everything that has a beginning has an end, Neo."
Logia ths Oracle, pou ypenthymizoun ston Neo ti prepei na kanei. Na "apo-isorrophsei" thn eksisosh. Etsi paradidetai kai o Neo ston Smith kai akolouthei h alysidoth antidrash pou katastrefei thn isorropia kalou-kakou kai mazi kai ton idio ton Smith (alla kai ton Neo).
Euxaristo re Blitzer pou egrapses kommatia apo tin tainia, tin opoia sou thumizo oti exo dei ki ego. :P Otan rotiso pos pethane o Smith, profanos ithela na matho pos akrivos pethane. Diladi, itan sundedemenos me tin Pigi kai afise ton virus Smith na prosvallei to programma tou kai meta i Source skotose kai tous duo? San antivirus as poume? Mallon apo ti katalava exoun valei isxuro software ston Neo Anderson (os anthropo) sto kefali tou ki autos borei na gamaei kolous ktl mono oson afora tis mixanes. Parolo pou ta eixe gamisei ola, de borouse na sosei tin Trinity ektos Matrix. Ara kati paizei me tis mixanes. Mipos einai ki o idios kati san mixani??? Ti dialo, thelo sunenteuxi apo tous Wachofski, pou boro na vro gamoto. Episis, de mou apantises giati den edeixe kolo kai vuzia i Monica.
Ithela na po kati gia tous cult theous pleon Merovingian kai Smith... POSO gamane auta ta atoma?
Why, Mr Anderson? WHY? WHY? Is it love, is it freedom, WHAT IS IT MR ANDERSON that makes you want to continue fight??
Kveldssanger
16-11-2003, 15:04
Episis, de mou apantises giati den edeixe kolo kai vuzia i Monica.
Hthele mia allagi apo tous synitheis rolous tis...
Apta ptwmata trefontai osoi einai syndemenoi sto Matrix (fantazomai oxi apokleistika giati apokleietai na ftanoun gia trofh!).
Plaka ekana :P
Faithless Spirit
17-11-2003, 00:14
nai thn thimame thn muksa (lol) alla pou to vriskoun kai auto?
vasika o neo apo oti exo katalavei einai imihuman, den einai authentikos:P gia auto kai diaferei ousiastika
Elfstone
17-11-2003, 03:34
Hmihuman den pisteuw pws einai alla mallon yparxei enas kwdikas/programma pou syndeetai me ton One/Neo. Kapou anaferei o Architect sto Reloaded gia "code of the One". Fantazomai auto einai pou dinei tetoies dynameis otan o Neo einai sto Matrix kai telika mporese na elegxei auto to kommati ki ektos Matrix (thlepatheia? den einai toso travigmeno se sxesh me thn ypoloiph trilogia :P). Pantws efoson auto to kommati vrisketai mesa se ypologisth einai fysiko na exei dynameis mono panw stis mhxanes ektos tou Matrix. Kai telika auto to kommati/kwdikas xrhsimopoieitai gia thn veltiwsh tou Matrix efoson h epafh tou me to anthrwpino myalo tou kathe eklektou to veltiwnei epishs. Auta katalava egw anyway ;p
Ola ayta pou lete enisxyoun thn arxikh mou apopsh. Oti dld. to senario einai mia mpoyrda (o eklektos pou swzei ton kosmo ktl.). Apla vasistikan sthn allhgoria. Sou leei dwse ekei mysthrio na mhn katalavei kaneis kai etsi dhmioyrgithike to olo hype (pou metafrazetai se polla $ sta tameia). Tespa kai katholou senario namhn eixe pali tha mou arese.
Angrafan
23-11-2003, 04:18
to eida molis xthes kai ena exw na pw. Tetoia mparoufa ergo eixa na dw poly kairo. Oloklhro to ergo vasizotan sta eidika effe kai tipota allo. Tzampa oi 4.5 lires :x
Osa egrapses tha borouse na ta exei pei kai kapoios pou den tin exei dei... tosi analusi re paidi mou
Loipon paidia eida to Animatrix -fovero- kai mou lythikan oi apories -sxedon oles- Opoios endiaferetai gia to senario einai must.
to da prin ligo kai den katalaba tipota leme (ektos apto oti itan mapa kai den eixe sxesi me ta alla 2). isws epeidi exo poly kairo na do ta 2 prota.
merikes stormrider apories, epeidi bariemai na psaxno:
1. i oracle einai anthropos?
2. does the architect work alone?
3. pos pane oi simmaxies metaksy twn: gallou-arxitektona-smith?
4. smith = mixanes?
5. ti itan auto to prama pou kane plug-in o neo kai isopedwse to smith sti maxi?
6. i oracle otan pige o smith na ti metatrepsei se smith, ti egine?
7. to bonus dvd leei tpt i na to paw pisw opws einai?
8. eimai poly xazos telika? (nai)
(gia des...topic revolutions...xa!..na kserasoyme ligo xolh)
H tainia htan X-A-L-I. O,ti eipe o Carcass sthn prwth selida einai ligo. Apath, blakeia, athliothta. Eprepe na to afhsoyn sto poly kalo original kai na pan spiti toys na traban to psygeio toys, an nte kai kala hthelan na spatalhsoyn film.
Synexiste.
Buddy Lackey
20-12-2004, 07:55
egw pali den mporw na katalavw
TI HTAN AYTO POU SAS MPERDEPSE
To ergo einai apelpistika KSEKATHARO oson afora to TI SYMVAINEI. Kai kapws ligotero ksekatharo einai to giati klp.
Peri thanatou Smith : Apla me to na afomoiosei kai ton Neo, h (syndedemenh me ton Neo) PHGH anekthse ton elegxo tou Smith kai ton ksepastrepse.
H Oracle safws kai einai programma, apla opws kapoia alla programmata GOUSTAREI to fai, to poto, to sex kai tis anthropines apolayseis, estw kai an gnorizei oti einai "pseytika". Kati paromoio symvainei kai me ton meroviggio - den ypakouei akrivws stis entoles symfwna me tis opoies dhmiourgitike, goustarei na einai pseftovasilias se enan pseftokosmo, para ena tapeino programmataki poy ypakouei apla se varetes diatages
Entelws kouth h theoria peri sub-matrix (sorry carcassoulino).
H monh aporia pou exw einai
PWS SKATA EGINE ETSI O OURANOS?
Diladi ok otan sto prwto matrix leei o morfeas ston Neo "emeis kapsame ton ourano" ti ennoei? Oti kataferan na min pernane oi aktines tou Hliou apo tin atmosfaira? Tespa.
Kalo ergo kai w nai eixe kai food for thought.
Peri thriskeftikou background, apla thimithite tis morfes pou katastrefei o Neo otan polemaei me tous andres tou Meroviggiou - epishs mou xoun pei oti "Meroviggios" einai key name sto "DaVinci Code".
Dunadan Ranger
20-12-2004, 08:03
H tainia htan X-A-L-I. O,ti eipe o Carcass sthn prwth selida einai ligo. Apath, blakeia, athliothta. Eprepe na to afhsoyn sto poly kalo original kai na pan spiti toys na traban to psygeio toys, an nte kai kala hthelan na spatalhsoyn film.
kati tetoio sto peripou.eixe kai kapoia liga kala stoixeia pou to ekana kalytero apo to 2 pou pisteyw oti htan o apopatos
PWS SKATA EGINE ETSI O OURANOS?
Diladi ok otan sto prwto matrix leei o morfeas ston Neo "emeis kapsame ton ourano" ti ennoei? Oti kataferan na min pernane oi aktines tou Hliou apo tin atmosfaira? Tespa.
.
ayto an thimamai kala to eksigei se ena episodio (apo ta 9 an den kanw lathos) tou 'animatrix'
alla twra de thimamai na sou pw akrivws ti ginetai..
...mnimi elefanta exw panathema me... :roll:
rincewind2k
22-12-2004, 13:02
H monh aporia pou exw einai
PWS SKATA EGINE ETSI O OURANOS?
Diladi ok otan sto prwto matrix leei o morfeas ston Neo "emeis kapsame ton ourano" ti ennoei? Oti kataferan na min pernane oi aktines tou Hliou apo tin atmosfaira? Tespa.
nai. oi mhxanes htan solar powered kai nomizan oti etsi tha tis nikousan alla profanws den htan kai toso kalh idea...
des animatrix - the final renaissance 1 & 2
Λοιπόν πάλι το είδα το εργάκι απόψε...
Κάθε φορά που το βλέπω μου φαίνεται και λιγότερο κακό... :)
Οι σκέψεις μου:
Η βάση στο σενάριο είναι άνθρωποι εναντίον μηχανών. Οι μηχανές νικάνε και χρησιμοποιούν τους ανθρώπους ως μπαταρίες συνδέοντας τους στο Matrix για να ζουν ένα όνειρο. Από κει και πέρα, το εγχείρημα αυτό των μηχανών βασίζεται σε προγράμματα. Όλα τα πράγματα στο Matrix είναι κώδικας. Η source είναι το βασικό πρόγραμμα της Matrix. Ο Architect είναι πρόγραμμα που κατασκευάζει το Matrix. H Oracle είναι πρόγραμμα. Όταν συνδέεται ένας χρήστης στο Matrix υλοποιεί τον εαυτό του σε μορφή κώδικα. Οι Agents είναι προγράμματα. Από κει και πέρα όσο γίνεται το Matrix update μερικά προγράμματα γίνονται obsolete. O Merovingian είναι ένα τέτοιο πρόγραμμα, γι'αυτό και η εξορία εκτός Matrix. Ο υπεργαμάτος Seraph είναι πρόγραμμα. Η Sati είναι πρόγραμμα που δεν κάνει τίποτα στο Matrix, αυτό πέτυχε η Oracle στην ουσία. Ελευθερία στο Matrix, να μπαίνεις, να βγαίνεις - επιλογή του καθενός να κάνει ό,τι θέλει. Ο Neo μπορεί και κάνει αυτά τα πράγματα γιατί είναι ο "The One" που σημαίνει ότι έχει δυνάμεις να κάνει interact με τις μηχανές σε άλλο επίπεδο. Τόσο εντός όσο και εκτός Matrix. Αυτή τη δύναμη την παίρνει ως κάποιο πρόγραμμα μέσα στο κεφάλι του, λογικά από την Oracle. Στην ταινία εξισώνεται ο ανθρώπινος εγκέφαλος με έναν υπολογιστή...
Και η Μόνικα δεν δείχνει βυζάκι γιατί θα γίνοταν η ταινία R. Bad for sales :P
Στο Matrix Online η ιστορία που παρουσίασαν στην beta λέει ότι ο Morpheus προσπαθεί να πάρει το πτώμα του Neo από τις μηχανές και μέσα σ'αυτή την τρέλα του βάζει μια βόμβα μέσα στο Matrix. Βλέπουμε έναν άγνωστο assassin να εμφανίζεται και να σκοτώνει τον Morpheus, η βόμβα σκάει, η Niobe έχει μια συνάντηση μέσα στο Matrix με κάποιους Αgents λέγοντας εκ μέρους της Zion ότι δεν το κάνανε αυτοί δηλώνοντας ότι η Zion δεν κάνει endorse τις κινήσεις του Morpheus και οι Agents λένε "The truce is broken" και γίνεται της καργιόλας. Μέσα στο παιχνίδι σκάνε lvl 255 Agents και σκοτώνουν ονομαστικά παίχτες. Ο ουρανός γίνεται κόκκινος και παντού υπάρχουν μάτια. Όλες οι πινακίδες αλλάζουν και λένε σε όλους τους users της Matrix να κάνουν disconnect διαφορετικά όλοι θα πεθάνουν. Τελικά η Matrix γίνεται reset και όποιος είναι μέσα ψοφάει. Όπως έγινε με τον Neo. Όταν ο Smith καταλαμβάνει τον Neo στην ουσία μπαίνει στο σώμα του. Ο Deus Ex Machina κάνει reset το Matrix με αποτέλεσμα να σκοτώσει τον Neo - άρα και τον Smith.
Αυτάαααα
Και είναι προφανές ότι κάποιος παίχτης τελικά θα είναι ο επόμενος "The One".
Κάτι τέτοιο νομίζανε όταν οι Agents σκοτώνανε ονομαστικά παίχτες και τεράστια groups των 20+ ατόμων να πολεμάνε έναν agent για να προστατέψουν τον υποτιθέμενο "The One". Περιττό να πω ότι όλοι ψοφήσανε ε.
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