Linux loipon \m/

[Angrafan]

Loipon epeidi to pc mou stamathse na sinergazete me ta windows gia agnwstous logous (mporei na ftaiei o mavros anthrwpos) apofasisa na ta soutarw kai na exw apo dw kai sto ekshs mono linux.

An ekseresoume to gegonos oti den exei polla games pou na paizoun se linux (pragma pou den me endiaferei kiolas, afou sto katw katw den polypaizw) tote den diaferei se polla pragmata apo to akatanomasto leitourgiko tou gates.
Thelei kamposo psaksimo gia na katalaveis pws doulevei, mias kai den exei kamia sxesh me ta windows h to dos, pou hmouna sinithismenos tosa xronia(px o tropos me ton opoion kaneis install ena programma), alla sto telos ola leitourgoune roloi.
Eimai poly xaroumenos pou to psilosaravalo pc mou (oute 1,5 xrono den exei pou tou ekana anavathmish) mporei epitelous kai me eksipiretei opws egw thelw.

[minus6]

ΚΑΙ ΠΑΝΤΑ MANDRAKE ETΣΙ;
Linux να 'ναι, κι ότι να 'ναι. :)

[IrDA]

imo suse ... (ante kai fedora pou sux)

true linuz == debian alla 8elei polu poio polu psa3imo ..

auta ...

[saiko]

slack re.

[The Nerd]

slack re.

n00b

[Ingolemo]

Katevasa 8 cd ta debian, alla telika evala ta fedora...

Aksizei na svisw ta fedora kai na valw debian? Ti parapanw exoun? Pantws sta fedora den xreiazontai idietaires gnwseis unix, pou einai kalo giati eimai psilonoob.

Gia peite.

[The Nerd]

a) Einai TO linux kai oxi TA linux
b) Valte FreeBSD 5.3

[IrDA]

Nerd mhn kaneis anousia posts ...

Ingolemo mhn baleis debian ama 8es kati allo apo fedora bale Suse imo einai poio kalo kai exei poio polu development (Novel) kai prokeite sta epomena xronia na ginei polu dunato. Epishs exei to Yast to opoio einai arketa isxuro configuration tool.

Debian den a3izei, 8a ma8eis *nix men alla 8a sou parei polu kairo den leei 8a mple3eis ...

BSD mhn baleis pote oso kai an to linux compatibility mode einai psilo basic kai den a3izei gia everyday use.

8a proteina Suse enanti Fedora ...


PS: egw exw debian se ena Sunaki pou exw spiti giati htan apo ta liga pou eixan Sparc port alla mou bghke psilo h panagia na to settarw. Apo kei kai pera paei teleia kai exei uptime peri tis 67 meres twra ... Exei kai graphics :>

[The Nerd]

Nerd mhn kaneis anousia posts ...

Ingolemo mhn baleis debian ama 8es kati allo apo fedora bale Suse imo einai poio kalo kai exei poio polu development (Novel) kai prokeite sta epomena xronia na ginei polu dunato. Epishs exei to Yast to opoio einai arketa isxuro configuration tool.

Debian den a3izei, 8a ma8eis *nix men alla 8a sou parei polu kairo den leei 8a mple3eis ...

BSD mhn baleis pote oso kai an to linux compatibility mode einai psilo basic kai den a3izei gia everyday use.

8a proteina Suse enanti Fedora ...


PS: egw exw debian se ena Sunaki pou exw spiti giati htan apo ta liga pou eixan Sparc port alla mou bghke psilo h panagia na to settarw. Apo kei kai pera paei teleia kai exei uptime peri tis 67 meres twra ... Exei kai graphics :>

Me ayta apedei3es thn "a3ia" soy se oloys toys epaeiontws ....
Ante paixte me to kafeneio OS sas twra

[wanker]

telika a3izei se enan average xrhsth na paideftei toso poly wste na valei ena leitourgiko pou 8a tou prosferei apla sta8erothta sto systhma tou me 8ysia kapoies eykolies twn windows?
mhpws prepei na yparxoun kapoia alla kritiria wste na valeis linux k oxi gia na to pai3eis magas h' gia na pas contra sthn microsoft?

milaw teleiws antikeimenika k zhtaw gnwmes

------------------------------------------------------------

epishs mporw na kanw ena partition tou sklhrou mou na doulevei me linux k ka8e fora sto startup na diale3w OS
8a exei kapoio conflict me ta windows h' 8anai teleiws ane3arthta
k egw o mesos xrhsths an valw kapoia ekdosh tou linux 8a mporesw monos mou k xwris odhgies na to setarw

thx :)

[BLiTzER]

Ayta pou pes sthn proth paragrafo ta xo ksanapei. Psakse prohgoumeno linux thread :P

Otan sthseis kapoio distro, tha egkatasthsei kai kapoio boot loader, o opoios tha sou epitrepei na dialegeis poio leitourgiko thes na fortoseis kata to bootarisma. Ayto an ypothesoume oti exeis pano apo ena leitourgiko sto systhma sou.

Nomizo oti ki enas mesos xrhsths mporei na egkatasthsei kapoio "eykolo" distro, an den asxolithei me to partitioning kai afhsei na kanei ta panta to setup. Vevaia den ksero kata poso ikanopoiei to apotelesma. Alla mhn ta theloume ola dika mas :P

[Deggial]

Τα γραφικά περιβάλλοντα του Linux (και άλλων open source λειτουργικών) είναι τρομερά φιλικά και δε δυσκολεύει πάρα πολύ τον μέσο χρήστη όσο στο παρελθόν. Οι διανομές έρχονται με πάρα πολλά προγράμματα για κάθε λειτουργία, ενώ συνήθως έχουν κάποιο δικό τους σύστημα για Ρυθμίσεις.

Το κύριο πρόβλημα είναι η έλλειψη υποστήριξης σε κάποιες κατηγορίες προϊόντων, π.χ. παιχνίδια.

[The Nerd]

Re paidia, linux valte gia na ma8ete kai tipota mhn ta 8elete ola sto xeri. Ta skills poy 8a akoloy8hsete dialegontas mia "sovarh" dianomh h kapoio "sovaro" open source OS einai polytima

[wanker]

dld me liga logia ayto me to partition ginetai na to kanw
peite mou mia FRIENDLY user efarmogh linux (client pws to lene :P)

[IrDA]

basika otan xwseis to cd 1 enos_opoioudhpote_linix_distro 8a katalabei oti exeis mesa win kai 8a to kaneis partitioning apo ekei ...

ta alla meta einai next next next eidika se fedora kai suse ...

Se opoidhpote allo distro nomizw prepei na exeis kapoies poio advanced gnwseis ...

auta

Oson afora to linux os linux ...

Einai para polu eukolo pleon na douleueis se grafiko peribalon linux. Uparxoun para pola diaforetika windowing systems such as KDE kai Gnome pou einai GUIs full featured alla kai diafora alla pou prepei na ta ftia3eis mona tous ...

KDE imo einai to kalutero kai ama to sunh8iseis exei kapoia options pou cannot live without ...

Auto pou leei o Nerd epishs einai swsto ... Ma8aineis para polla pragmata gia ton upologisth giati prepei na thn psa3eis ligo th fash monos sou .. Apo kei kai pera leipei kai to middle (fucking) tier twn windows opote ma8aineis oles tis leitourgies opws ginontai kai oxi me to abstract level gia th giagia pou apla 8elei na kanei click (an kai auto pleon ginetai kai sto GUI) ...

.-

[cloud]

Re paidia, linux valte gia na ma8ete kai tipota mhn ta 8elete ola sto xeri. Ta skills poy 8a akoloy8hsete dialegontas mia "sovarh" dianomh h kapoio "sovaro" open source OS einai polytima


αυτός είναι και ο μόνος λόγος για να χρησιμοποιήσει το Linux ένας μέσος χρήστης αυτή τη στιγμή (πέραν του ότι είναι free, φυσικά).

[The Nerd]

Re paidia, linux valte gia na ma8ete kai tipota mhn ta 8elete ola sto xeri. Ta skills poy 8a akoloy8hsete dialegontas mia "sovarh" dianomh h kapoio "sovaro" open source OS einai polytima


αυτός είναι και ο μόνος λόγος για να χρησιμοποιήσει το Linux ένας μέσος χρήστης αυτή τη στιγμή (πέραν του ότι είναι free, φυσικά).

Ektos ama eisai developer h provider. Server side to linux skizei (kai akoma perissotero ta *BSD) :). Twra linux sto desktop, not my cup of tea.

[IrDA]

kai na 8es ligo stability sto system sou sth douleia as poume pou den se apasxolei na paizeis paixnidia ...

[The Nerd]

kai na 8es ligo stability sto system sou sth douleia as poume pou den se apasxolei na paizeis paixnidia ...

Loipon, sovarh dhlwsh. Se OS level (giati gia application stability, einai pleon apokleistika ypey8ynos o ekastote developer), h MS meta ta 2k exei kanei kalh doyleia (provided oti eisai pisw apo firewall wste na glytwneis worms/firewalls).

[edit] Loipoi unixades toy forum, posa kernel panic exete faei sth mapa?

[cloud]

είπα μέσος χρήστης.
τα WinXP είναι πολύ σταθερά, περισσότερο απο το Mandrake που χρησιμοποίησα για λίγο.

[Ingolemo]

είπα μέσος χρήστης.
τα WinXP είναι πολύ σταθερά, περισσότερο απο το Mandrake που χρησιμοποίησα για λίγο.

Akrivws auto. Ta xp mou xoun kolhsei 2-3 fores kai auto apo hardware problems. To mandrake mou eixe kolhsei panw apo 5 fores se 2 meres.

To thema einai pantws oti ta linux exoun polu kallitero systhma diaxeirhshs mnhmhs, oxi opws sta xp pou meta apo 1-2 meres anoixta PREPEI na kaneis restart, eidika ama exeis treksei kai kana paixnidaki.

[Angrafan]

emena se perisotero apo mia vdomada giati den exei kolhsei oute mia fora to mandrake?

[IrDA]

Meta ton anagrafan kai afou sto grafeio mou feran enan pIII 700 me 128 ram apofasisa kai gw na exw ena hardcore linux box ...

Suse 9.2 \m/

[The Nerd]

Meta ton anagrafan kai afou sto grafeio mou feran enan pIII 700 me 128 ram apofasisa kai gw na exw ena hardcore linux box ...

Suse 9.2 \m/

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[IrDA]

ase otan mou feran to pc na deis ti gelia ekana ..

kai upotei8etai kanw analush shmatos kai eikonas kai na tous lew paidia autos den shkwnei ta programata pou 8elw ..

[The Nerd]

ase otan mou feran to pc na deis ti gelia ekana ..

kai upotei8etai kanw analush shmatos kai eikonas kai na tous lew paidia autos den shkwnei ta programata pou 8elw ..

Nai, alla den gelaw gia ayto

[ramrunner]

katarxin afto pou lete me to posa panics trome ine tragiki paparia
dld ..
esto 2 systimata . a) o OpenBSD router mou , pou ine minimal , ginete aplos
update kani routing kai firewalling . patcharetai taktika kai edo kai 2 xronia
den eixe oute 1 panic. logika .. gia pio logo na exi?
b) ena OpenBSD workstation me ta adera tou pano pou kano development kai trexo
oti malakia mou katevi .. edo kai 2 xronia prepi na ixa kamia 10aria panics.
to ti varai ine analogo me ti xrisi pou tou kanis.
Ta win otidipote ine skata mprosta se otidipote unix . min ksexname oti ta win apektisan uptime megalitero ton 12 imeron meta ta 98. eno akoma kai to minix xalara den tha ixe provlima na araksei POLLES meres ;).
kai oso skata ine ta win brosta sto unix . toso skata ine kai to linux brosta sta *bsd
kai afto giati apo ti mia exoume enan katharo kernel , kala maintained , kai apo tin alli exoume
to patch tou patch tis koutsis marias pou ftiaxni to prob pou dimiourgise ena allo patch.
afta

[ramrunner]

Kai gia na katalikso kapou .
Osoi exete win MIN valete unix .. den to xriazeste re pedi mou.
tha xasete xrono , tha dimiourgisete lathos endiposeis kai den tha mathete kai polla pragmata
ine anousio na valis unix gia na mimise ta windows (games/multimedia) and stuff
tora osoi unixades .
a) katastrepse ta intel saravala sas kai parte kanena ibm me AIX
b) valte bsd.

[The Nerd]

Kai gia na katalikso kapou .
Osoi exete win MIN valete unix .. den to xriazeste re pedi mou.
tha xasete xrono , tha dimiourgisete lathos endiposeis kai den tha mathete kai polla pragmata
ine anousio na valis unix gia na mimise ta windows (games/multimedia) and stuff
tora osoi unixades .
a) katastrepse ta intel saravala sas kai parte kanena ibm me AIX
b) valte bsd.

Eisai pozeros ...

[ramrunner]

profanos me kseris kairo ;) ....e?

[The Nerd]

profanos me kseris kairo ;) ....e?

Den se 3erw ka8oloy...
Alla o tropos poy ta grafeis einai pozeristikos (eidika kati sxolia gia deinosayroys typoy AIX)

[ramrunner]

parolo pou den theoro oti milisa pozeristika
a) dose mou to dikeoma na to kano giati doulevo arketa xronia san admin kai programmatistis
pano se afta ta mixanimata ;)
b) to aix mporei na ine dinosavros , alla tha sou zitousa na mou pis tin teleutaia tripa pou thimase
na exei kai akoma kai na mou vris , tha mporouses na tin kanis exploit?
c) ta rs/6000 ine mixanimata me APisteuto hardware , mias kai sti doulia mou doulevoume me afta san high end servers (me poly megala loads) apo to 95-96 ;) ... vale ena pc na kani to idio
d) oti ipa to aitiologisa . dld sou ipa giati den theoro kalo to linux gia kapion pou psaxnetai..
an diafonis be my guest na milisoume sovara kai oxi tou tipou "to linux ine kalo epidi bootari pio grigora"
e)eilikrina pistevis oti exo lathos se afto pou leo , oti den ine aparetito na vali olos o kosmos unix?
pera apo to open source epixirima , to opio to theoro simandiko mono otan DIAVAZEIS ontos to source sou , o ipolipos kosmos to xriazetai? dld exo filous pou vazoun linux me kde kai winex kai oti alli malakia thes , gia na peksoun to warcraft3 as poume.. afto ine ilithio.
fandasou poso tha douleves esy kapion pou tha ithele na vali sendmail + apache pano se win98.
dld .. kai ta windows exoun to skopo tous.
to unix ine gia doulia . kai mono gia afto.
akoma kai ego an ithela pote na pekso pexnidia , tha evaza win. eleos.
kali fasi na iparxi ligo support , alla edo kinoumaste sto na ginei aftoskopos.

afta eixa na sou po .. elpizo na deis piso apo to "elitistiko" mou yfos.

[The Nerd]

parolo pou den theoro oti milisa pozeristika
a) dose mou to dikeoma na to kano giati doulevo arketa xronia san admin kai programmatistis
pano se afta ta mixanimata ;)
b) to aix mporei na ine dinosavros , alla tha sou zitousa na mou pis tin teleutaia tripa pou thimase
na exei kai akoma kai na mou vris , tha mporouses na tin kanis exploit?
c) ta rs/6000 ine mixanimata me APisteuto hardware , mias kai sti doulia mou doulevoume me afta san high end servers (me poly megala loads) apo to 95-96 ;) ... vale ena pc na kani to idio
d) oti ipa to aitiologisa . dld sou ipa giati den theoro kalo to linux gia kapion pou psaxnetai..
an diafonis be my guest na milisoume sovara kai oxi tou tipou "to linux ine kalo epidi bootari pio grigora"
e)eilikrina pistevis oti exo lathos se afto pou leo , oti den ine aparetito na vali olos o kosmos unix?
pera apo to open source epixirima , to opio to theoro simandiko mono otan DIAVAZEIS ontos to source sou , o ipolipos kosmos to xriazetai? dld exo filous pou vazoun linux me kde kai winex kai oti alli malakia thes , gia na peksoun to warcraft3 as poume.. afto ine ilithio.
fandasou poso tha douleves esy kapion pou tha ithele na vali sendmail + apache pano se win98.
dld .. kai ta windows exoun to skopo tous.
to unix ine gia doulia . kai mono gia afto.
akoma kai ego an ithela pote na pekso pexnidia , tha evaza win. eleos.
kali fasi na iparxi ligo support , alla edo kinoumaste sto na ginei aftoskopos.

afta eixa na sou po .. elpizo na deis piso apo to "elitistiko" mou yfos.

a) Den eisai o monos edw mesa ...
b) Ola einai 8ema admin. Kanena OS den einai secure ektos an den pesei polys kopos (kai fysika 3ereis oti apolyto security den yparxei). To pote vghke exploit gia AIX teleytaia fora (kai to severity aytoy) den 3erw giati den asxoloymai me computer security.
c) Den vazw ena PC, vazw ena cluster kai eimai kirile. An paizei mh-x86 periorismos, solaris logw support symvolaioy.
d) Gine ligo pio analytikos giati kapoios DEN prepei na valei linux an einai na asxolh8ei me *nix?
3) Symfwnw me oti les alla oxi me ton tropo soy

[ramrunner]

tha diafoniso trela sta 2-3 .
a) den OLA thema admin . dld esy ti protimas ? ena sistima pou vgenoun vulns me sixnotita 1 server / month? kai an ekini ti stigmi koimase kai o allos kanei full discolosure sto bugtraq to proi kanena malakismeno script kiddie tha sou exi vali rootikit .. ti ftes?
giafto ine kalo to openbsd . check it out.
b) oso gia to clusteroma epidi kai ego exo cluster sou leo :
kapies fores DEN thes cluster , px . sto fysiko trexoume parallel algorithms ta opia theloun
parallel OXI cluster. etsi exoume ena 8way hp.
(mporis na to kanis kai me clustering alla me tromero performance loss)
episis to solaris gamai genikos (fandasou exo trexo to cluster me sun grid engine)
oso giati den mou aresei to x86 o vasikos logos ine oti eno to protipo ypostirizei execute only
memmory pages , i intel den to evale pote. tora to giati .. go figure.
(se andithesi me sovares cpu opos oi power kai oi sparc64)

episis .. giati den theoro kalo to linux.
o kodikas tou DEN ine kalogrammenos (skepsou oti enas developer tou netbsd vrike to 99 mia axristi sleep() sto init.c tou linux to opio to ekane na kathisteri to boot gia 5 sec . fandasou toso opensource kai den to eixe dei kanis)
kai giati o kodikas tou DEN pernai auditing procedure . pali des to openbsd to opio exi ena team 20 programmatiston pou kanoun MONO audit ton kodika .
kai giati thisiazontas tin piotita gia to compatibility kai tin taxitita vgenoun polles fores ektos
POSIX compatibility.
kai kataligontas (epitelous) theoro to GNU license perioristiko gia ton developer... isos ligo
koummounistiko ..dld ok . eleutheria ypo periorismous. se andithesi me to BSD license to opio
mporei na ine pio weak alla ine i apoliti eleutheria.
kai nai. eki fenete i magia ton programmatiston dld. ok ekana kati gamato , den me pirazei na to pari kai i m$ na to vali sto source tis , giati voithisa sto na exoun OLOI kaliteri piotita sto leitourgiko tous.
kai ligo edo afta ta posts giati malakizomai kai ego pou ipostirizo to "shut up and code"
an theli kapios na tou mini kati apo ola afta pou ipame ine :
www.openbsd.org (http://www.openbsd.org)
www.opensource.org (http://www.opensource.org)

[Ingolemo]

To thema einai oti egw toulaxiston (opws mallon kai oi perissoteroi) exw linux logw anagkhs (ergasies klp) opote den me noiazoun sxedon katholou ta bsd, an einai kallitera apo unix kai ola auta.

Kai gia th douleia pou thelw egw ta windows einai kallitera apo linux/bsd, kyriws logo uposthrikshs kai synhtheias.

Ennoeite oti an pote esteina kana server den tha to ekana sta windows...

[The Nerd]

tha diafoniso trela sta 2-3 .
a) den OLA thema admin . dld esy ti protimas ? ena sistima pou vgenoun vulns me sixnotita 1 server / month? kai an ekini ti stigmi koimase kai o allos kanei full discolosure sto bugtraq to proi kanena malakismeno script kiddie tha sou exi vali rootikit .. ti ftes?
giafto ine kalo to openbsd . check it out.
b) oso gia to clusteroma epidi kai ego exo cluster sou leo :
kapies fores DEN thes cluster , px . sto fysiko trexoume parallel algorithms ta opia theloun
parallel OXI cluster. etsi exoume ena 8way hp.
(mporis na to kanis kai me clustering alla me tromero performance loss)
episis to solaris gamai genikos (fandasou exo trexo to cluster me sun grid engine)
oso giati den mou aresei to x86 o vasikos logos ine oti eno to protipo ypostirizei execute only
memmory pages , i intel den to evale pote. tora to giati .. go figure.
(se andithesi me sovares cpu opos oi power kai oi sparc64)

episis .. giati den theoro kalo to linux.
o kodikas tou DEN ine kalogrammenos (skepsou oti enas developer tou netbsd vrike to 99 mia axristi sleep() sto init.c tou linux to opio to ekane na kathisteri to boot gia 5 sec . fandasou toso opensource kai den to eixe dei kanis)
kai giati o kodikas tou DEN pernai auditing procedure . pali des to openbsd to opio exi ena team 20 programmatiston pou kanoun MONO audit ton kodika .
kai giati thisiazontas tin piotita gia to compatibility kai tin taxitita vgenoun polles fores ektos
POSIX compatibility.
kai kataligontas (epitelous) theoro to GNU license perioristiko gia ton developer... isos ligo
koummounistiko ..dld ok . eleutheria ypo periorismous. se andithesi me to BSD license to opio
mporei na ine pio weak alla ine i apoliti eleutheria.
kai nai. eki fenete i magia ton programmatiston dld. ok ekana kati gamato , den me pirazei na to pari kai i m$ na to vali sto source tis , giati voithisa sto na exoun OLOI kaliteri piotita sto leitourgiko tous.
kai ligo edo afta ta posts giati malakizomai kai ego pou ipostirizo to "shut up and code"
an theli kapios na tou mini kati apo ola afta pou ipame ine :
www.openbsd.org (http://www.openbsd.org)
www.opensource.org (http://www.opensource.org)

Protimw swsto incident response plan kai na skasei forensics team (kleftes na ginoyne?) kanonika den 8a eprepe na se anyshxei to script kiddie alla kapoios parapanw sthn trofikh alysida twn hacker (mhn grapsei kaneis cracker kai loipes politically correct malakies)
Epishs to openBSD poy toso fanatika yposthrizeis den einai kai toso trela secure, an den apatomai prwta eixe vre8ei h ptrace se linux kai meta sta *BSD (kai fysika patsaristhke).

Oso gia linux, dexomai a priori, oti o kwdikas toy se merika shmeia isws einai skata, alloy gamaei ktl. Pantoy etsi einai (to synexes source tree forking einai kai kalo kai kako analoga an ayto poy 8es yposthrizete apo vanilla :-P )

Peri clustering, den eipa oti einai monodromos, alla px giati h google diale3e linux cluster kai oxi merika gaidoyrakia...

POSIX oloi to gamane kata voylhsh, den einai mono sto linuxi ayto

GPL vs BSD einai gia apeiro flame kai gnwsto geek subject kai proswpika pisteyw oti h pleiopshfia twn paidiwn poy diavazoyn to forum den toys noiazei h den 3eroyn ti einai opote as mhn to e3antlhsoyme.

Allos enas unixas sthn parea mas loipon :dfinger: