prog oder...was?

[symposium_lexotanil]

ti theoreitai kai ti theoreite simera prog?
akoume synexeia gia prog metal iroes pou prospathoun na paroun to throno sto en logw eidos mono me entyposiasmous,akoume apisteuta proodeutika groups na mi xaraktirizontai prog ktl ktl.
ti einai telika progressive metal et etei 2003?
poios einai o orismos tis "proodou" sto xwro?
arkei na xeis prototypes kai kainotomes idees i prepei aparaitita na paizeis 43433242notes/sec se trela metra?
px to sham mirrors an den einai progressive metal tote ti einai?
auta ta erotimata me vasanizoun agapita mou metalika filarakia kai tha thela na me voithisete na ksefygo apo tin apelpistiki thesi stin opoia euriskomai.
thnx

[Buddy Lackey]

to "the sham mirrors" einai to kalitero prog metal album apo tote pou vgike to "Disconnected" twn Fates, xalarotata.
epishs o Garm einia o kaliteros metal tragoudistis
anyway back to the topic
to prog einai kai thema melwdiwn vasika, hxwn klp ... to na valoun oi watchtower melwdies apo ..cartoons e nai htan PROG!
vasika omws nomizw oti prog prepei na leme kati meta apo xronia ...px twra apodiknietai poso gamimena PROGRESSIVE itan to "Electric Scum" (pou opws exei pei o filtatos symposium, einai pio progressive apo to 95% twn prog groups akoma kai simera)..
kati vanden plas kai theaterripoffs pou onomazontai prog na pa na psofisoun.

[symposium_lexotanil]

xm nai.ki ego kapos etsi to vlepo.
to na antigrafeis mia idi gnosti kai epitiximeni syntagi (vl. theater kai eidika to images and words) de mou akougetai kai toso *proodeutiko*..kai einai gegonos pleon pos ta pio proodeutika-progressive albums vgainoun apo groups pou den exoun (amesi) sxesi me to xwro kai ta stereotypa tou.
gia mena,ena apo ta kalytera progressive metal albums einai to politix....

[After Dark]

Oi Vanden Plas einai mia xara group.Oi Arcturus einai gamw ta groups apo idrysews tous.

[StationEleven]

prog me thn palia enoia einai to dyskolo kai to "de bganei mou ginane ta daxtyla bentalia"
pleon pisteuw einai kati to alliwtiko apo ta syni8ismena
ara prog for me is a lot of the nu stuff

nai 3erw 3erw death to nu

re ourt :p

[symposium_lexotanil]

xm den ksero kata poso mporei na xaraktirisei *proodeutiko* o,tidipote kainourgio.den einai apolyto auto omos.px oi soad gia mena einai progressive.den ksero an einai metal,pantos progressive einai sigoura.apo tin alli den mporo me tpt na skefto san progressive ti mousiki ton deftones px

[Buddy Lackey]

ok nu is everything, tespa.
Oi Shadow Gallery einai nomizw oi telefteoi poiotikoi kai proodeftikoi enapominantes apo tin palia froura, an kai pali argoun tou kerata na vgaloun kati.
vasika oti vgenei kai onomazetai prog, enw den thimizei theater, o kosmos to fovatai , giati kakws exei sindethei to "paizw san theater" me to "eimai proodeftikos", etsi osa groups kserw gw paiksane ontws kati proodeftiko kai mporouses aplws na tous peis apla "prog metal" sxedon perasane sta azitita apo tous ....prog opadous

[symposium_lexotanil]

kai na mia mpixti gia tous die hard fans ton theater kai ton pos.mporo na po anepifylakta oti symfono mauto..

[WoTaN]

To pragmatika proodeutiko kata tin tapeini moy gnwmi vgenei apo tis idees enos group kai oxi toso apo tin mousiki.I an thelete apo tis idees panw sti mousiki.Thelw na pw oti den metraei to na pezei kaneis 1000 sola kai 200 riff gia na einai progressive (oxi oti endexomenos kai na min einai etsi),alla kiriws to pos skeftete na domisei tin mousiki tou ginontas proodeutikos alla oxi kai kourastikos.

[Buddy Lackey]

kai na tin sodomisei an xreiastei

[Buddy Lackey]

den nomizw oti "proodeftikos" einai mono opoios exei perierges domes sta songs tou.

[symposium_lexotanil]

yeap etsi einai pou to leei o mpantilakis.oi d-age eixan oso ginetai pio aples domes sta kommatia tous kai parola auta (opos proeipame) einai pio progressive apo to 95% ton simerinon prog groups.

[Kveldssanger]

Tha symfoniso kai ego me ta legomena tou buddy... Mporei to prog metal os oros na exei lavei mia sxetika sygkekrimeni ermhneia alla nomizo pos h proodeytiki mousiki einai kati diaforetiko... Kai mallon exei na kanei perissotero me ti nootropia ton mousikon, poso einai prothymoi na peiramatistoun, na syndyasoun kainouria pragmata, na min akolouthisoun tin pepatimeni... Ayto mporei na ginei kai me 343029443notes/sec mporei na ginei kai me 1 riff/ora... Arage mporei na amfisvhthsei kaneis an einai prog oi Voivod h oi Sigh?

[symposium_lexotanil]

kala to paradeigma ton voivod einai ligaki astoxo,kathws genika prog-thrash xaraktirizontai..toulaxiston ego opou exo dei na anaferontai etsi einai..mporei na kano kai lathos..o kveld panta kserei kati parapano :P
kataramene

[Buddy Lackey]

kala oi Voivod akoma kai to telefteo to omonimo einai karga PROGRESSIVE enw oute periergous hxous exei oute tpt, aplws diastrofi sta riffs , kai teleiws spasmwdikous rithmous , me to diko tous monadiko stil omos.

[Buddy Lackey]

symp: apokleitai na min sou aresoun ta "Dimension Hatross", "Nothingface"

[symposium_lexotanil]

a episis ksexasa na anafero to grand declaration of war pou exei ola ta stoixeia gia na xaraktiristei progressive me oles tis ennoies.arrosta riffs,perierga metra,polla kitharistika meri grammena to ena pano sto allo,afthono peiramatismo (mexri kai electro-drum and bass kommati) kai aperigrapto feeling.pare kosme

[Kveldssanger]

a episis ksexasa na anafero to grand declaration of war pou exei ola ta stoixeia gia na xaraktiristei progressive me oles tis ennoies.arrosta riffs,perierga metra,polla kitharistika meri grammena to ena pano sto allo,afthono peiramatismo (mexri kai electro-drum and bass kommati) kai aperigrapto feeling.pare kosme

......... 666 International (fonazei kapoios apo to vathos).......

[symposium_lexotanil]

ok
eimai aksios tis moiras mou pou to ksexasa.
spank my butt and call me nigger.
kai an kai oi fleurety den itan toso poly ston kosmo tous,pithanon na tous anaferame ki autous :P

[Kveldssanger]

Nai, alla aytoi den einai metal... Einai omos ston kosmo tous :p

[The_Emperor]

tha xarakthriza proodeytiko otidhpote prospathei na paei th mousikh parapera kai exei ekdhlh thn tash na prototyphsei. Alla exei epikrathsei prog na theoreitai kai otidhpote to poly texniko sto yfos ton megalon prog rock (paliotera) alla kai prog metal (pio prosfata) group pou egrapsan istoria. Prosopika dhlono gohteymenos kyriws apo tis mpantes toy extreme xorou pou dokimasan na paiksoun texnika xoris na ypotimo ta megathyria toy prog metal xorou. Ostoso oi mpantes pou antigrafoun ta parapano group (fates, dt, ktl) synhthos (an oxi panta) eite einai stygnoi antigrafeis eite prospathoun na yperballoun kai skotonoun sthn kyrioleksia tis syntheseis toys me apotelesma sto telos na mhn menei tipota ki emena prosopika na me kourazoun perissotero kai apo tis pio synthrhtikes mpantes.

Ostoso shmera pisteyo oti pragmatika prog einai to na dokimazeis kati se entelws diko sou hxo - opws oi arcturus pou gia mena einai mia apo tis pio "egkefalikes mpantes" toy planhth - h na dokimazeis kai na peiramatizesai diarkws katorthonontas na bgazeis sygxronws koimmatia gemata pathos - opws oi pain of salvation kai oi fates poy gia mena exoun kai oi 2 afhsei poly piso toys theater. Kai gia na mhn parekshghtho na po oti oi theater mporei na gamane kai na paizoun apisteyth mousikh, alla nomizo oti oi pragmatikes kainotomies pou tolmoun einai poly mikres kai kinountai - arista fysika - sto styl pou oi idioi kathierosan.

apo thn allh meria mpantes opws oi death, oi cynic, oi Sadus, oi Theory in Practise, oi Atheist ki alloi tolmhsan na paiksoun texnika kai antelws akraia syndiazontas polla stoixeia syxna exontas to diko toys prosopiko hxo se ayto pou ekanan. Ego diakrino amesos se poia apo tis parapano mpantes anhkei ena kommati ki ayto einai xarakthristiko megalon groups pou afhnoun aneksithlo to stigma toys sth mousikh.
thats my opinion

[Amnesiac.]

progressive einai oi tool. monadiki periptwsi mpantas pou einai poly mprosta apo tin epoxi tis alla anagnwrizetai kai stin epoxi tis.

[The_Emperor]

oi tool mou aresoun apeira...
alla epetrepse mou na po oti den einai mprosta apo thn epoxh toys afou ayta pou paizoun ta exoun paiksei oi floyd sta telh ths dekaetias toy 60 kai oi Porcupine sta prota 3 albums toys...

[rincewind2k]

to gamato (kai paradokso) me tous tool den einai oti "wow einai toso progressive kai texnikoi kai kataplhktikoi" alla to oti ontas ta parapanw poulane ta kerata tous.

Kata ta alla klassika mperdeyoume to "Texniko" me to "Proodeytiko". Nomizw pws kapote eixe nohma ayth h taytish, alla oxi pleon...

Ayto pou mallon tha eprepe na ginei einai na broume allo titlo gia tous pragmatika proodeytikous afou o titlos "Proodeytikos" - kai h taytish me allous tou idiou yfous (h kalytera ths idias tampelas) - etsi opws ayto exei katanthsei tous adikei (nai den bgazei kai poly nohma kai to lew misoasteia misosobara alla elpizw na katalabainete ti ennow)

Dhladh sorry re paidia, ti eidous "Proodo" kanoun oi Dream Theater pleon? Kai kala autoi, alla osoi tous antigrafoun? Kai poso proodeytikos mporeis na gineis otan apo monos sou entassesai se mia tampela kai autoperiorizesai akolouthwntas sygkekrimenous "agrafous" kanones?

Kai sto katw katw poso "Progressive" mporeis na gineis prosexontas omws na mhn stamathseis na paizeis "Metal"?

[WoTaN]

basika allo proodeutiko kai allo texniko..
den xerw se ti anaferotan apo ta dio o symp.I an anaferotan kai sta dyo.

[symposium_lexotanil]

to topik einai safes.........ti theoreitai kai ti theoreite simera progressive.....kai akrivos auto itan to noima tou.na eipothoun apopseis gyro apo ti (lanthasmeni) apopsi "progressive einai mono to texniko paiksimo".............
ti akrivos se mperdepse..?

[chris_boss]

re paidia me auti ti logiki den prepei na uparxei onomasia px hard rock, afou uparxoun groups pou paizoun polu pio sklira apo auta pou anikoun sto idiwma.
Kalws i kakws exei epikratisei ws prpgressive rock/metal. Dld an rwtisei kapoios ti paizoun oi Arcturus, i apantisi einai prog?
Episis ti eidous prwtotupia exoun na epideiksoun mpantes opws oi Theory in Practice?

P.S. Giati de briskw omoiotita anamesa stous Tool kai tous Floyd?

[Amnesiac.]

xmmm de tha elega oti oi tool paizoun ta idia pou epaizan oi pink floyd, gia porcupine tree mallon oute me sfaires.
epirroes apo floyd sigoura, oloi exoun kapoies epirroes, alla nomizw oti exoun entelws proswpiko yfos.
thats my humble opinion.

[The_Emperor]

ta orxhstrika merh ton 3 proton album ton Porcupine Tree opou mpaso kai tympana ksesalonoun se tribal rythmous einai karfi to idio pragma pou kanoun oi tool sta analoga shmeia ths mousikhs toys...
Bariemai na psakso tora gia toys titlous ton kommation...
oso gia toys theous floyd apla na anafero kommatia opws to saucerful of secrets, be careful with that axe...Set the control for the Heart of the sun kai genika to yliko toys eos kai to meddle kai to Relics

[Amnesiac.]

entaksei de diafwnw apla nomizw oti menoun sta oria tis epirrois, de ftanoun se simeio antigrafis.
kai vasika exoun entelws anagnwrisimo ixo, pragma pou simainei oti den antigrafoun (toulaxiston oxi trantaxta)

[symposium_lexotanil]

xm omologo oti den katalavaino ti thelei na pei o chris..
oso gia arcturus.eutyxos den einai progressive,alla to sham mirrors einai progressive metal album.ki auto einai anamfisvitito.opos eipa kai se proigoumeno post,an den einai progressive tote ti einai..? (to album,oxi to group genika).
oi tool exoun poly prosopiko ixo intint kai oi opoies epirroes tous einai arketa kala krymmenes..

[The_Emperor]

re paidia me auti ti logiki den prepei na uparxei onomasia px hard rock, afou uparxoun groups pou paizoun polu pio sklira apo auta pou anikoun sto idiwma.
Kalws i kakws exei epikratisei ws prpgressive rock/metal. Dld an rwtisei kapoios ti paizoun oi Arcturus, i apantisi einai prog?
Episis ti eidous prwtotupia exoun na epideiksoun mpantes opws oi Theory in Practice?

P.S. Giati de briskw omoiotita anamesa stous Tool kai tous Floyd?

1.akou prosektika tis kithares ton Theory kai tha katalabeis
2.akou ta albums ton Floyd eos kai to Meddle kai epishs tha katalabeis

[Dragonlord]

loipon exoume kai leme
ta diafora parakladia tou metal onomazontai me kapoio epi8eto pou prohgeitai ths le3hs metal.autes oi tampeles dhmiourgountai gia na perigrafoun kapoia sygkrothmata pou ena apo ta kyriotera koina tous xarakthristika einai to ekastote epi8eto.auto de shmainei pws to epi8eto de mporei na xrhsimopoih8ei gia na perigrapsei kai sygkrothmata pou anhkoun se allh h se kamia koinws apodekth tampela.
nomizw pws h olh sygxysh ofeiletai sto oti to epi8eto pou exei xrhsimopoih8ei gia na perigrapsei ena sygkekrimeno hxo kollaei kai se groups allwn hxotopiwn.px:o oros prog metal dhmiourgh8hke gia na perigrapsei ta paraplhsia me dream theater/fates warning (zonder periodou) groups.alla safws h le3h "proodeutikos" mporei na armozei kai se ena group tou black h tou death klp.opws px (ligo atyxes paradeigma,ka8ws to prog einai h pio xtyphth tetoia periptwsh) otan leme epic metal sto myalo mas erxontai oi manowar,manilla road,doomsword klp.auto de shmainei pws kai oi arcturus px sthn arxh tou sham mirrors den exoun epiko synais8hma,h pws ta teleutaia immortal den einai epika.
tespa katalavainete elpizw ti 8elw na pw,an dextoume to "progressive metal" ws tampela pou perigrafei sygkekrimeno hxo ennooume theater klp,enw an to paroume kyriolektika ws proodeutiko metal mporei na einai o,tidhpote

[symposium_lexotanil]

dld en oligois mas les oti gia na entaxthei ena group stin katigoria "progressive metal" prepei na einai klonos ton theater/fates?
an einai ontos etsi,tote tampeles sak perissotero apoti nomiza

[Kveldssanger]

Tora to katalaves? Mono otan xrhsimopoihseis tampeles gia ti mousiki katalavaineis pos perissotero kako kanoun para kalo....

[symposium_lexotanil]

xm se kathe post mou sxetiko mauto to thema,leo panta "tampeles sak".apo tin alli otan xrisimopoiountai sosta (pragma poly dyskolo),mporoun na voithisoun ligo..

[chris_boss]

akou prosektika tis kithares ton Theory kai tha katalabeis

Omologw pws den katalabainw(Kapsis copyright)
Sobara twra, einai prwtotupia na paizeis san tous Watchtower(gia tous Theory milaw)?
Dld to 90 oi Nirvana itan progressive? Help!
Oso gia tous Theater einai i sugxroni ekdosi twn Kansas-Rush! Opote oute gia autous isxuei o oros afou akolou8oun kati pou paixtike 20 xronia prin?

[Dragonlord]

koita isws h swsth xrhsimopoihsh na einai auth pou lew.dld to na dineis ston allo mia idea gia to pws akougetai ena group.dld an mou peis gia tous vanden plas oti paizoun prog,8a katalavw panw katw se ti styl einai.an mou peis gia tous ulver h gia tous d.age oti paizoun prog de 8a katalavw xristo kai mallon 8a apokthsw teleiws lan8asmenh apopsh.opote kalytera na mou peis oti paizoun otinanai kai na afhneis tis tampeles ape3w se tetoies periptwseis

[symposium_lexotanil]

xm se tetoies periptoseis ego prosopika leo "paizoun san tous tade".an pali den yparxei kanena group pou na exei paromoio ixo,tote leo "pigene parto opos eisai" giati de vgainei kai kathe mera group me apolyta prosopiko kai kainourgio ixo,opote aksizei.....
fdsasfdsfd

[The_Emperor]

Omologw pws den katalabainw(Kapsis copyright)
Sobara twra, einai prwtotupia na paizeis san tous Watchtower(gia tous Theory milaw)?
Dld to 90 oi Nirvana itan progressive? Help!
Oso gia tous Theater einai i sugxroni ekdosi twn Kansas-Rush! Opote oute gia autous isxuei o oros afou akolou8oun kati pou paixtike 20 xronia prin?

an den theleis na apolytheis apo mpassistas ton stains stamata amesos!! LOL

ego den brisko para elaxistes omoiothtes metaksy watchtower kai theory...oi protoi einai poly pio "arrostoi" kai "treloi" ston tropo pou paizoun kai kitharistika pisteyo oti diaferoun apeira...ase pou ta tympana einai poly pio apla stous theory eno kai ta fonhtika den exoun kamia sxesh apolytws...aporo pos parapempeis se aytous...

o oros "proodeytikos" armozei se opoiadhpote mpanta kanei kati entelws neo...ean pisteyeis oti oi nirvana ekanan kati tetoio tote xarakthrise toys etsi...
o oros progressive opws exei epikrathsei gia tis mpantes pou paizoun mono texnika akomh kai "ratsistikos" tha mporouse na xarakthristei...

[chris_boss]

a mprabo. einai anagkaio kako oi tampeles gia na sunennooumaste.
epituximeno paradeigma oi vanden plas :)

[rincewind2k]

apotyxhmeno group omws :p

de me lete, oi meshuggah ti paizoun? (afou oi tampeles einai aparaithtes kai me aytes synennooumaste)

[symposium_lexotanil]

o,ti na nai.-

[rincewind2k]

ok synennohthikame

[Buddy Lackey]

o oros "proodeytikos" armozei se opoiadhpote mpanta kanei kati entelws neo
"entelws" neo den kanei kanenas.i sxedon kanenas
zitw oi progressivades black sabbath , motorhead, kai possesed

[symposium_lexotanil]

kai celtic frost parakalo

[The_Emperor]

"entelws" neo den kanei kanenas.i sxedon kanenas
zitw oi progressivades black sabbath , motorhead, kai possesed

onomasa "proodeytikes" tis mpantes pou tolmoun megales kainotomies kai xrhsimopoio ton oro etymologika, oxi me thn ennoia "progressive" pou pleon apodidei ena sygkekrimeno mousiko eidos mallon kakws.
Ypo aythn thn ennoia oi Sabbath ontws ekanan kati kainourio paizontas gia proth fora me tetoio hxo alla sigoura den einai progressive me thn ennoia ton Fates h ton Theater.
Oso gia to ean yparxei kati neo pote sth moysikh h genikotera sthn texnh asfalws kathe dhmioyrgos sthrizetai se o,ti exei ginei eos tote eos ena bathmo alla ksekinontas apo ayto polles fores exei th dynatothta na proxorhsei parapera kai na kanei kati pou ligh sxesh exei me to antikeimeno ton "epirrown" toy. Nomizo oti apo toys Sabbath eos shmera yparxoun arketes mpantes pou eferan terasties kainotomies dhmioyrgontas ki antistoixa "parakladia" toy metal h esto exontas ena diko toys hxo pou afhse to stigma toy sth mousikh ayth. Poios tha perimene tote oti 30 xronia meta to metal tha eixe toses diaforetikes apoxroseis apo mpantes pou kinountai apo ta pio akraia mousika monopatia eos to pio melodika. Oles aytes oi diaforetikes kateythynseis an kai basizontai se paliotera rock, blues h alla eidh anamfibola edosan kai dika toys entelws nea stoixeia kai pisteyo oti aksizoun ena meridio prototypias

[chris_boss]

Sa na blepw mia antifasi na ksepetagetai....:eek: Oi Theory einai orismos tis mpantas pou paizei mono texnika. Aporw an kataferoun pote na grapsoun "kommati".:dangry:

[The_Emperor]

Sa na blepw mia antifasi na ksepetagetai....:eek: Oi Theory einai orismos tis mpantas pou paizei mono texnika. Aporw an kataferoun pote na grapsoun "kommati".:dangry:

sto trito album toys nomizo oti metriazoun arketa thn yperbolh stis syntheseis toys. bebaia einai kai thema goustou. emena mou aresei poly o tropos pou domoun tis syntheseis toys. allon isos ton kourazei - opws esena px. Pisteyo oti me to epomeno album kai dedomenhs ths poreias toys apo to proto album tha exoun to pio isorrophmeno toys yliko
opsometha

[FIXXXER]

Emena mou aresoun oi Theater giati einai elafrolaikoi kai mono gia gkomenes, peirazei? Telos panton, opos tha elege ki o anousios Magellan (ahahah) oi Theater einai kaula oti ki an paizoun, anexartita diladi apo to an kapoios entelos kollimenos prospathei na apodeixei oti einai prog, i apo to an kapoios perissotero kollimenos prospathei na apodeixei oti den einai prog. Kata ta alla, gia "proodeutika" pragmata boro na vro polla, alla de nomizo oti tairiazoun sto metal discussion, me liges exaireseis.