View Full Version : Return of the King - Spoilers!
enitharmon
17-12-2003, 17:06
To lew apo tin arxi, osoi den exoun dei tin tainia mi diavasoun, edw tha leme pws mas fanike i tainia kai giati!
proswpika mou arese poly, ws tainia einai kapws kalogyalismeni, alla oi allages den einai polles. oi tainies maxis ekpliktikes an kai apo pleura taktikis xalia :p
de lew leptomereies akoma, an kati sas enoxlise, feel free na to peite...
Magellan
17-12-2003, 17:57
emena me enoxlise pou den eipes kai alla! :D
nikodimos
18-12-2003, 01:09
Emena me areze alla egw eimai fanboy kai den pianomai (sthn karekla toses wres ennow pou eida kai ta tria mazi).
8a to dw kai th deutera kai blepoume.
oeo klama otan ekanan to bow sta hobbitses sto telos.
enitharmon
18-12-2003, 06:23
eklapses malaka?
emena me peiran ta zoumia me to pou epesan oi titloi telous... eutyxws pou ntrepomoun kai de me epiasan kai anafilita...
pantws texnika i skini tis ypoklisis einai gtp.... fainotan 100% oti einai blue screen kai ksenerwsa.... :x
nikodimos
18-12-2003, 17:04
Exm se polles tainies ebre3a mantilaki (Maddy_Lackey).
Eimai ligo sugkinisiarhs. :oops:
enitharmon
18-12-2003, 23:04
xeirokrotisate otan pire to spathi? (Anduril to lene, den thymamai... :s)
Magellan
19-12-2003, 00:14
i anduril i narsil legetai to spa8i
klasika tolkien pou edine 22354235 onomata se ka8eti! :D
MoRmEnGiL
19-12-2003, 02:14
narsil to legane otan to kratage o elentil,anduril flame of the west to metonomasane otan to 3anaftia3ane :>
Thn eida kai egw tin taineia.
Para pollu kalh,kaluteri apoti tin perimena,safws kaluteri apo tin parwdia tis proigoumenhs.
Eixe bebaia arketa simeia parapoiimena kai merikes prosthikes alla se genikes grammes den alloiwthike to biblio sxedon katholou.
Perimenw kai to extended pou am prostethoun oi skhnes pou oloi kserete poies einai tha einai 8eiko!
H taineia einai foverh, alla kai pali exei kanei tis vlakeies tou o Jackson, me apokoryfoma thn diagrafh tou Saruman!!!
Pantos h taineia einai epikotath kai poly sygginitikh kai epitelous (toulaxiston mexri to teleytaio 15lepto) apofevgei tis holywoodianes ilithiotites (px logos Sam sto TTT) kai vgazei to sosto synaisthima gia LOTR.
Gia effects klp den to syzhtao, gamoun.
Symfwnw. Polu kalutero apo to 2 Towers,ontos den eprepe na diagrapsei ton saruman alla ti na prwtoxwresei se 3 1/2 wres. Oi maxes omws htan kataplhktikes!!!
enitharmon
19-12-2003, 15:48
pantws ton empedwsame oloi to gio tou PJ..... :roll:
Para para poly kalo nomizw to 3. Me apozhmiwse gia ta alla dyo-eidika to deytero. Twra prepei na ksanadiavasw ta vivlia, pane 5 xronia kai oi tainies me skatomperdepsan...
btw yparxoun kati fhmes pou lene oti h tainia htan to extended version. Gia ayto kai h megalh diarkeia, alla kai kapoies skhnes pou fainontai na xanoun sto montaz...lete?
Mpa.. kai meta pos tha vgaloun 15 diaforetikes ekdoseis DVD gia na klevoun ton kosmo?
popo nai ayto me to montage einai poly eknevristiko!
Den nomizo na einai h extended version... Tha prepei na vgei kai 3o dvd san ta dyo prohgoumena :wink:
e siga kati tha vroun...eksallou etoimazetai kai h super duper extended ekdosh kai twn triwn tainiwn...e re ti sou kanei to xrhma...
nikodimos
19-12-2003, 23:11
Exw thn entupwsh exontas dei ta 2 extended kai 3erontas peripou ti exei to 3o oti mallon ta extended einai oi kanonikes tainies, auta pou exoun einai aparaithta gia to senario.
enitharmon
20-12-2003, 01:45
ti tha exei to extended (ektos apo Sarki?)
Ingolemo
22-12-2003, 03:20
Extended tou return of the kings, tha vgei, kai tha exei gyrw sth mia wra parapanw. :D :shock:
Tha exei kai 7lepth skhnh me ton Saruman vs Gandalf :twisted:
H vlakeia einai vevaia oti (mallon) den tha exei extra skhnes otan gyrnane ta hobbits sth shire - maxh klp-thanatos saruman -, afou edeikse hdh sth tainia skhnh pou gyrnane kai einai ola mia xara... :evil:
Elpizw na exei tipota me house of healing-faramir klp kai na leei perissotera gia to ti ekane o kathenas meta..
Pantws stadar tha vgainoun kathe xrono nees super-duper-special-ouaaouu-extended-remastered-director's cut ekdoseis, to opoio mono kalo mporei na einai :D
Pantws oso afora ta extended se sxesh me tis kanonikes tainies eidika to TT htan 500 fores kalitero..
Ante, tha doume molis vgei to RotK extended...
Solo Carriera
22-12-2003, 04:24
SPOILER
nisafi me ton tolkien
oxi edw... genika.
SPOILER
nisafi me ton tolkien
oxi edw... genika.
daxtilidaki? :roll:
When Black Roses Bloom
22-12-2003, 07:28
Basika, 8a exei ta ekshs, (ap'oso kserw):
The Houses of Healing
The Witch King At The Doors Of Minas Tirith
The Death of Saruman
Love Between Faramir-Eowyn
The Life Of Aragorn and Arwen After The Hobbits' Departure
A Few Details About The Life At Shire After The War Of The Ring
Kapoio kommati epiplewn me ton Sauron, alla den 8umamai twra akribws ti (btw Sauron mati se style Batman saks).
Ayta, ap'oso 8umamai.
twra pou to les den edeikse katholou Sauron se kanena apo ta 3...Eytyxws tha mou peis giati an htan opws htan sthn eisagwgh...
Buddy Lackey
24-12-2003, 02:55
TRELLO EPOS
xalara to kalytero apo ta tria apo opoia pleura kai na to deis., oi skhnes maxhs klassikes.
htan ola teleia, ektos apo to telos to opoio to paratravhksane se diarkeia, enw i idea tou na deiksoun tin anaxwrhsh bilbo-frodo me gandalf kai elfovasiliades -eldovasilisa itan poli orea kai omorfi.
milaei kai to BLi][zER gia ekmetalleysh pou exei ta misa toy cd se 24 ekdoseis ...hahaha
ntaks h tainioula espeire
den ksexname oti ola gia to xrhma ginontai sto hollywood alla en htan na mas peiraksei ayto tha eprepe na aparnhthoume kai polla alla...eimaste etoimoi?
..pantos an to Gollum telika den erixne to daxtylidi sth fotia kai to malakismeno o frodo eixe katastrepsei 9 ores trilogias tha htan h megaluterh anatroph sthn istoria tou cinema...ftouuuuu
Gamati itan, opos kai oi alles duo. Varethika na diabazo muxoparapona giati allaxan ekeino kai to allo kai giati to spathi tou Aragorn itan 2,3 metra ki oxi 2,25.
katwrimos
24-12-2003, 21:59
diafono me OLOUS.
Otan perneis ena TELEIO vivlio kai to kaneis mia KALUTSIKI tainia, mipos eisai KAKOS SKINOTHETIS???
Pantos einai ntropi na exeis ena toso kalo vivlio kai na to metatrepeis se mia ligh budget ekdosi tis zinas. kai eksigumai:
Kai stis 3 tainies, oloi oi xaraktires exun ginei i KALOI i KAKOI. Oi kaloi lipon, poleman tus kakous kai sto telos nikane. Wow. Fovero. Episis eno sto vivlio ipirxan 2 "kakoi" stin tenia kanume ton 1 kako (saruman) na fenetai san tsiraki tu megalou kakou (sauron) gia na min mperdepsume tous amerikanous kai ta 12xrona, afu miazun kai ta onomata tus.
Episis se oli tin tainia dinete emfasi ekei pu den prepei (sto poso kala sfazei o aragorn px) kai den ginetai kamia anafora se pragmata pu oxi mono kanun to vivlio magiko, alla kai einai usiodi noimata sta vivlia tou tolkien, opos px i filia gimli-legolash.
En kataklidi, i tainia einai kalutsiki, den tha klapsei kaneis ta lefta tu, alla otan perneis ena iperoxo vivlio kai den stekesai sto ipsos tu eisai gia tis ntomates.
Kai min akuso aidies tu stil "einai adinato na ftaseis to vivlio" O Kubrick px girise 9 vivlia se tenies kai kathe mia apo aftes itan tulaxiston isaksia tu vivliou, malista eniote to ksepernouse.
Skata sta mutra tu jackson
kala xristugena
The_Painless
24-12-2003, 22:45
Λουκά, αμφισβητείς τα αδιαμφισβήτητα τώρα. Χαλάρωσε λίγο. Επίσης, αυτό που λες "ή καλός ή κακός" είναι μια μαλακία. Και όσον αφορά το "σκατά στα μούτρα του Τζάκσον", αν εννοείς τον Μάικλ μαζί σου. Αν εννοείς τον άλλο, κάτι έχεις χάσει....
Κακά χριστούγεννα σε όλους. Φακ Κρίστμας ολ δε τάιμ, αι γκατ τζίσους ον μαϊ σάιντ φακ, κρίστμας φακ κρίστμας και αν είσαι χριστιανός φακ κρίστμας και πάλι.
daydreamer
25-12-2003, 00:16
Η ταινία ήταν Ε Ξ Α Ι Ρ Ε Τ Ι Κ Η !!!!!
Μπορεί να έλειπαν πράγματα, μπορεί να άλλαξαν γεγονότα, όμως αν την δεις ως απλά μια ταινία είναι κορυφαία!
Σε ό,τι αφορά τη σχέση της με τα βιβλία, μπορεί να μην ήταν σύμφωνη με αυτά, αλλά η ατμόσφαιρα των βιβλίων μεταφέρεται αυτούσια...
ΥΓ: Η φιλία Γκίμλι-Λέγκολας φάνηκε από την 2η κιόλας ταινία... και στην τρίτη...
Μην ξεχνάς το "I never thought that I would die fighting side by side with an elf". "What about side by side with a friend?" "Yes... I could do that..." ...
Buddy Lackey
25-12-2003, 01:19
louka les M A L A K I E S
otan exeis ena theiko vivlio opws les, toso pio dyskolo na anaparageis afto to toso teleio pou exei.
ara o jackson anelave ena apo ta diskolotera egxeirhmata ever.
ara kai NA to ekane kaloutsiko (pou den einai kaloutsiko, ypertato einai) tote tha eprepe na tou peis mpravo.
afta peri kakwn, kalwn pou les oti se xalasan, opws kai i filia gimli legolas, mprosta sto olo concept einai i leptomereia tis leptomereias.
otan les oti einai kaloutsiko, tote ypotheteis oti ginetai kalytero, to opoio kalytero tha sinevene me 5 wres kathe ergo (kai 2 wres extras)
kai nai kai sto vivlio afto ginetai stin ousia OI KALOI NIKANE TOUS KAKOUS PWPW.
enitharmon
25-12-2003, 02:51
@katwrimo: ennoeis ti metafora pou ekane o Kubrick sti Lampsi kai o King dilwse, pws auti einai i xeiroteri metafora vivliou tou se tainia? :roll: an den kserei o syggrafeas, poios kserei? (asxeta an i tainia einai kali i oxi... ki ston Tolkien mporei na arese)
@Buddy: kalo itane to telos re, pou na to kovane gia na min to traviksoun? pou na to syntomeuane? tha eprepe na mi deiksoun ta gkriza limania tote :?
Buddy Lackey
25-12-2003, 03:40
den eipa oti den einai kalo.
e as mhn kanane toso arges tis skhnes tou, or something.
katwrimos
25-12-2003, 18:13
Eni: Ksexna ti dilosi tu king (profanos o anthropos den vlepei cinema afu i xeiroteri tenia olon ton epoxon, to children of the corn einai vasismeni se vivlio tou). Esy theoreis oti i lampsi den einai kali tainia i esto oti den steketai sto ipsos tu vivliou?
Katerina: Sorry alla den tha apantiso se ena post tu stil: "les malakies, les malakies les malakies".
Antoni: Oi alages tu jackson einai ousiodeis. Kai oles exun ginei gia na aplopioisun to ergo. Sto vivlio, oloi oi kaloi einai kai ligo kakoi kai oi perissoteroi kakoi einai kai ligo kaloi. Opos diladi einai stin pragmatikotita oi anthropoi. Sto ergo osoi den einai kaloi einai kakoi. Afto prosopika me kseneronei. Stin tainia oloi einai i neutral good, i chaotic evil gia na to theso se orus rpg.
Skepsu to eksis. Sto vivlio to goloum einai ena distixismeno plasma to opoio akrovatei anamesa sto na ginei kalos kai na paraminei kakos. O frodo apo tin ali, apo ti mia einai kalos kai genaios san xaraktiras, apo tin ali endomixa epithimei na kratisei to daxtilidi. Oli afti i esoteriki sigrousi, pu sto vivlio pianei peripu to 1/3 tis istorias, stin tainia exei aplopiithei os eksis:
Golum: kakos, thelei na sfaksei to frodo kai na parei to daxtilidi. Frodo: kalos, thelei na sosei to daxtilidi. Giafto kai i skini pu apofasizei na min to katastrepsei, fenetai afisiki an den exeis diavasei to vivlio.
Genika nomizo oti aplopioiseis tis morfis Kaloi-Kakoi kanun opiadipote tainia pediki. Den ksero an exeis diavasei to vivlio tu fight club, alla fantasu na to diavazes kai meta na evlepes mia tainia stin opoia o brad pitt tha itan o KAKOS kai o Edward Norton KALOS. Den tha ksenerones? Den einai ena apo ta iperoxa simeia tis tainias oti o KALOS einai ena KATHIKI?
Episis gia na einai mia tainia kali prepei na exei kai kalo casting. To casting tou lord of the rings einai apo ipoferto, eos metrio. OK, den iparxei kanenas ithopoios gia ta mpaza, afto to paradexomai alla kai kanenas ithopoios den ksefeugei apo ti metriotita.
Gia olus aftus tus logus nomizo oti to lord of the rings einai mia KALUTSIKI tainia. Kai epidi einai vasismeni se ena teleio senario, o skinithetis einai apotiximenos.
daydreamer
25-12-2003, 19:23
Golum: kakos, thelei na sfaksei to frodo kai na parei to daxtilidi. Frodo: kalos, thelei na sosei to daxtilidi. Giafto kai i skini pu apofasizei na min to katastrepsei, fenetai afisiki an den exeis diavasei to vivlio.
Δηλαδή στην ταινία το Γκόλουμ ήταν ανέκαθεν κακό; Δεν αμφιταλλαντευόταν; ...καημένε Σέρκις τσάμπα πήγε η προσπάθειά σου...
Ο Φρόντο από την άλλη ποτέ (ούτε στο βιβλίο) δεν ήταν κακός, το δαχτυλίδι ήταν αυτό που τον έκανε αναποφάσιστο... άλλωστε είναι πολύ εμφανές στην ταινία το πάθος του για το δαχτυλίδι.
Kai epidi einai vasismeni se ena teleio senario, o skinithetis einai apotiximenos.
Όχι η ταινία δεν είναι βασισμένη σε ένα τέλειο σενάριο, το σενάριό της είναι βασισμένο σε ένα τέλειο βιβλίο...
Πες ότι ως σεναριογράφος είναι αποτυχημένος (νομίζω πως ο Τζάκσον ήταν ένας εκ των τριών σεναριογράφων) αλλά σκηνοθετικά η ταινία είναι εξαιρετική...
enitharmon
25-12-2003, 19:24
(ypo ton kindyno na ginw fangirl, an kai mallon eimai idi :s):
prwton, einai poly dyskolo na anaparageis se mia tainia to feeling enos vivliou. H Lampsi tou Kubrick mporei na einai kali ws tainia, alla ws metafora vivliou den pianei mia. Einai poly dyskolo na metafereis stin othoni ton tropo me ton opoio to ksenodoxeio arxizei na epireazei ton prwtagwnisti kai ton kanei eksallo me ti gynaika tou. Para poly dyskolo. Gi'auto kai yparxoun akoma syggrafeis kai anagnwstes kai to eidos den exei pethanei, giati ta vivlia mas prosferoun akoma alles diastaseis... (sto idio motivo, fantasou to Mullholand Drine se vivlio..... tha exane poly nomizw).
Etsi einai kai me to LotR... px, gia tin allagi tou xaraktira tou Faramir sto TTT, i Boyens eipe: "se olo to ergo prospathoume apegnwsmena na kanoume to theati na katalavei, pws auto to daxtylidi einai kako kai tous epireazei olous. H Galadriel den ithele na to agkiksei, to idio kai o Gandalf kai twra erxetai o Faramir kai leei, akoma kai sto dromo na to evriska de tha to epairna pote.... Auti i frasi tna ta katestrefe ola..." Kapoies allages itan anagkaies, alles oxi. kai otan krinw tin tainia panta skeftomai, pws prwton ti vlepoun kai atoma pou den exoun diavasei ta vivlia (px, itan megali "magkia" na apokaloune ton Gandalf Mithrandir sti Gondor, meta tin tainia me rwtise o filos (pou den exei diavasei ta vivlia), giati ton apokaloune etsi...) kai deuteron pws to koino pou arithmitika tha ti dei perissotero, kalws i kakws, einai to amerikaniko. Kai i tainia exei polla antimainstream stoixeia, alla krataei isoropies.
Kai twra pws mou gia to kast. Poious tha protimouses?
Elfstone
25-12-2003, 19:35
Sto vivlio, oloi oi kaloi einai kai ligo kakoi kai oi perissoteroi kakoi einai kai ligo kaloi.
Den exw diavasei megalyterh anakriveia oson afora ton Tolkien. Eisai sigouros oti exeis diavasei to vivlio? Den yparxoun "grizes" perioxes stous xarakthres tou Tolkien. Einai dynaton na einai kai "ligo kalos" o Sauron? Einai dynaton na einai kai "ligo kakos" o Gandalf? Pas kala? Sto Lord of the Rings toulaxiston h monh eksairesh ston katharotato diaxwrismo Kalou kai Kakou einai o Gollum. To Silmarillion exei kai xarakthres san ton Feanor pou exoun megalytero vathos.
H aplopoihsh gia thn opoia kathgoreis ton Jackson einai anapofeukth gia thn metafora enos tetoiou vivliou ston kinhmatografo. Apthn allh omws, mono atoma pou exoun diavasei Tolkien mporoun na apolausoun thn tainia sto megisto ki auto deixnei oti h aplopoihsh exei ginei mono se shmeia pou eprepe na ginei. O Jackson den ekopse oute ta pampolla onomata pou emfanizontai sto vivlio, den isopedose tis politismikes diafores twn fylwn ths Meshs Ghs, oute agnoise ton idiaitero tropo me ton opoio milane oi xarakthres tou Tolkien. Ekane lathi sigoura...alla xanontai mesa sto synoliko katorthoma tou. An nomizeis oti exeis ksanadei kati paromoio me auth thn trilogia wste na mhn theorite katorthoma pes to mas na to doume.
Genika mou fainetai oti den eides katholou prosektika thn taineia. Mono tis skhnes maxhs prosexes? Px den prosekses oti o Jackson se kathe eukairia deixnei posh epirroh exei to Daxtylidi ston Frodo? To telos erxetai fysikotata.
Gia olus aftus tus logus nomizo oti to lord of the rings einai mia KALUTSIKI tainia. Kai epidi einai vasismeni se ena teleio senario, o skinithetis einai apotiximenos.
Esy pantws eisai gia zourlomandya. Katarxhn allo to senario kai allo to vivlio sto opoio vasistike to senario. An den mporeis na ksexwriseis akoma auta ta pragmata einai fysiko na mhn katalavaineis thn diafora metaksy enos vivliou kai mias tainias. O Peter Jackson apotyxhmenos, ti allo tha akousoume...
katwrimos
25-12-2003, 21:49
den sinexizo mia sizitisi tis morfis "eisai gia zurlomandia, les malakies".
nikodimos
25-12-2003, 22:03
Katse na apanthsw prosexontas polu tis le3eis mou mpas kai den parw ki egw apanthsh meta.
katwrime se mia tainia opws to lotr pou exei 345634 xarakthres kai alla tosa events megalou mege8ous den uparxei h dunatothta na exei polu screen time o ka8enas. Einai logiko na prospa8hsei o skhno8eths na balei osa 8elei mesa alla se liges skhnes kai na elpizei oti o allos pou blepei 8a to piasei. O Gollum pou proaneferes exei tis skhnes tou pou to skeftetai alla den mporeis na perimeneis na ginetai sunexeia prepei na to katalabeis oti etsi einai apo monos sou me auta pou dinei o skhno8eths (kai einai akreta). O Tolkien me 1000+ seldes biblio kai se ka8e kefalaio 20 grammes na elege gia to 8ema den 8a se kouraze oute 8a eixe problhma xwrou na pei thn upoloiph istoria tou. Se mia tainia den ginetai auto.
Ta idia kai gia ton Frodo, fanhke kai auto.
Epishs den dexomai se kamia periptwsh atakes tou stul "paidikh tainia". Ti paei na pei auto? Dhladh mhpws eprepe na pe8anei o Frodo sto telos gia na einai realistikh h tainia? To Lotr einai ena paramu8aki alla einai to gamhemeno to kalutero paramu8aki pou exei ftia3ei nohmwn on kai h tainia metaferei thn atmosfaira autousia, kati pou esu epeidh exases ton xrono sou na psaxneis tis diafores apo to biblio profanws exases.
enitharmon
25-12-2003, 23:02
katwrime, egw de se evrisa, tha parw apantisi?
pes toulaxiston gia tous ithopoious...
katwrimos
25-12-2003, 23:22
Eni exeis dikio giafto apanta.
Lipon sxetika me tous ithopoious oson afora olokliri tin trilogia, anagnorizo oti kaneis ithopoios den einai gia ta mpaza teleios. Parolafta, oi kales erminies einai elaxistes, kai genika to casting tis tenias sozetai mono apo to gegonos oti oi xaraktires se protagonistikus rolus einai kaloutsikoi. Apo kei kai pera, gia na einai mia tainia TAINIARA, prepei na exei kai analogo casting, me ithopoious ikanotitas pano apo to "kalos". Tora mi me vazeis na grapso onomata ithopoion, apla skepsu oti oles oi TENIARES eixan kai foveres erminies. Tulaxiston afto pistevo ego, pu prosopika den mporo na fantasto to Kurdisto Portokali me opoiondipote alo sti thesi tu malcom mc dowel i tis siopis ton amnon me kapion alo sti thesi tu anthony hopkins. Oles oi tenies pu aksizun na apokaluntai klasikes (giati eseis etsi apokalite to LOTR, ego leo oti einai aplos kalutsiko) prepei na exun kai 1-2 erminies pu na einai siglonistikes, opos tu hopkins i tou mc dowell.
Pantos efxaristi ekpliksi stin tainia itan o ithopoios pu epeze ton Boromir. Aftos itan pragmatika poly kalos.
Elpizo na se kalipse i apantisi mu
PS: nikodime, den kathomun na psakso diafores me to vivlio, apla diafono gia to oti einai "aplos ena paramithaki" esto kai to kalitero paramithaki ever. Episis an den eixe xrono na analisei tis tenies MIPOS NA EVAZE KANA SFAKSIMO LIGOTERO???
enitharmon
25-12-2003, 23:49
to LotR genika eixe ena provlima: oi perissoteroi ithopoioi tha eprepe na afierwsoun to ligotero ena xrono tis dimiourgikis tous karrieras gia auti tin tainia... ontws oles oi tainiares eixan sygklonistikous ithopoious, mono pou autoi einai kai i koryfi. Omologoumenws apo tous koryfaious auti ti stigmi einai, Pacino, Hoffman, Hopkins klp, klp, klp... katalavaineis. Kanenas apo autous de tha afierwne toso xrono gia ena "paramythi". Opote o Jackson eprepe na epileksei se ligotero diasimous i neous ithopoious (ektos tou oti tha eprepe na tairiazoun kai stous xaraktires). Polloi apo tous ithopoious pou epilexthikan omws einai kataksiwmenoi ithopoioi theatrou (vlepe Ian Holm, Ian McKellan) kai einai adiko na les pws einai metrioi.
eeee, mallon auta.
Elfstone
26-12-2003, 03:15
den sinexizo mia sizitisi tis morfis "eisai gia zurlomandia, les malakies".
Typikotath apanthsh otan kapoios den exei epixeirhmata. Agnoises olo to post mou kai dialekses na prosvlitheis anti na apanthseis.
daydreamer
26-12-2003, 03:46
Typikotath apanthsh otan kapoios den exei epixeirhmata. Agnoises olo to post mou kai dialekses na prosvlitheis anti na apanthseis.
Ναι άλλα είχε δίκιο...
Σε ό,τι αφορά τους ηθοποιούς, προσωπικά έμεινα απόλυτα ικανοποιημένος, κυριώς με τους Ian McKellen (η ερμηνεία του Γκάνταλφ ήταν υπέροχη), Viggo Mortensen (αν και αρχικά δεν μου γέμιζε το μάτι, αποδείχθηκε πολύ καλός), Hugo Weaving (αν και το σενάριο δεν τον βοήθησε στο τρίτο μέρος), Kate Blancet (...), Sean Bean (κάπως έτσι θα φανταζόμουν τον Μπόρομιρ!)...
Οι υπόλοιποι στάθηκαν επάξια στους ρόλους τους και θα χαρακτήριζα τις ερμηνείες τους καλές.
Ο Ellijah αποδείχθηκε ιδανικός Φρόντο, κυρίως στο 3ο μέρος! και μπράβο στο παλικάρι!!!
Και ο Andy Serkis... υποκλίνομαι!
ΥΓ: Οι "σφαγές" έχουν σημαντική θέση και μέσα στο βιβλίο...
"apotyxhmenoi " den einai aytoi pou den kanoun thn "teleia" metafora enos vivliou ston kinhmatografo, alla aytoi pou perimenoun ton kinhmatografo na kseperasei thn logotexnia.
katarxhn otan grafeis ena vivlio mporeis na grapseis 5000 selides kai na diavazei o allos 4 mhnes kai na xei meinei mlk me tis analyseis kai tis perigrafes. Skepsou omos poso duskolo einai na metafereis ola ayta se mia morfh aisthitika pio plousia alla xronika polu periorismenh.
Epishs katwrime ektithesai oson afora to thema kako-Gollum/kalos-Frodo. Deixneis oti den exeis proseksei thn tainia. Einai fanero to poso o Frodo ephreazetai apo to daxtylidi, kathos kai h maxh pou dinei o Smeagol enantion tou Gollum.
Isos ta pragmata tha prepe na einai pio apla. Otan diavazeis ena vivlio ksereis tous periorismous tou kai otan vlepeis mia tainia to idio.
Antistoixa otan thes na grapseis vivlio grafeis vivlio kai to antistoixo gia tainia.
O.ti apotyponetai se xarti den einai senario.
Isos tha htan kalutera phgainontas na doume mia tainia na mhn perimenoume na thn dikasoume se sxesh me to vivlio alla na thn krinoume apla os tainia.
Etsi isos den tha peftame kai thymata aytwn twn emporikwn trik...
Sto vivlio, oloi oi kaloi einai kai ligo kakoi kai oi perissoteroi kakoi einai kai ligo kaloi.
Den exw diavasei megalyterh anakriveia oson afora ton Tolkien. Eisai sigouros oti exeis diavasei to vivlio? Den yparxoun "grizes" perioxes stous xarakthres tou Tolkien. Einai dynaton na einai kai "ligo kalos" o Sauron? Einai dynaton na einai kai "ligo kakos" o Gandalf? Pas kala? Sto Lord of the Rings toulaxiston h monh eksairesh ston katharotato diaxwrismo Kalou kai Kakou einai o Gollum. To Silmarillion exei kai xarakthres san ton Feanor pou exoun megalytero vathos.
Πραγματικά όταν διάβασα το post του katwrimou, το πρώτο πράγμα που σκέφτηκα είναι "Οκ, δεν έχει διαβάσει το βιβλίο". Συμφωνώ απολύτως με τον Elfstone.
Gia na po ki ego kati edo pera. Exo diavasei mono to Silmarillion kai gia kapoio logo de thelo na diabaso to Lord Of The Rings giati pragmatika den pisteuo oti tha ftanei oute to 30% tou Silmarillion, kai oti kai na peite de tha mou allaxei tin apopsi giati einai entelos prosopiko to thema, kai gia na to exigiso ligo, me sugkinei kai me intrigarei polu perissotero na diabaso tin vivlo tou kosmou tou Tolkien, para mia praxi tou ergou, isos tin pio simantiki vevaia, alla den exei simasia.
Oson afora tin tainia, exontas diavasei to Silmarillion polu analutika (den ginetai allios, ama de to kaneis analutika, to paratas to vivlio, polloi to paratisan hehe) katalava oti ki an eida stin tainia. Den exo kamia aporia. Episis xerontas tin oli theoria tis genesis tis Mesis Gis kai tou Valinor kai ton trion epoxon, katalava apoluta giati oi xaraktires itan etsi. Ti thelo na po... profanos o Jackson ixere oti prepei na deixnei ta elves oti kati to mi anthropino, to aplisiasto, kai pragmatika auto vlepeis otan vlepeis tin Galadriel, tin Arwen kai ton Elrod alla oxi mono optika alla kai ton esoteriko tous kosmo kai tis skepseis tous. Episis, ta Hobbits, an kai den exoun kanena rolo sto Silmarillion kapou ta perigrafei, kai pragmatika de tha borousan na einai pio antiprosopeutika kai ta makigiaz, alla kai oi ilithioi xaraktires ton Hobbits pou nomizeis oti oloi einai gay... (Frodo-Sam, Meri-Pipin, Smigol-Digol). Oi anthropoi einai san anthropoi, edo den eixe duskolo ergo sto na tous deixei sti megali othoni. Dustuxos stis tainies o monos dwarf pou vlepoume einai o Gimli kai malista oxi polli ora, alla ki auton ton exei kanei polu gamato. Exo mia enstasi oson afora ta orcs. Stin tainia einai POLU vromika kai amorfa plasmata. Ego ta perimena pio erpetoeidi kai sugekrimena plasmata, aidiastika men, oxi omos xoris kapoia sunoxi. Einai gamoto polu SKATA. Telos panton, auto isos einai diko mou kollima.
Kai gia na katalixo, thelo na po oti pragmatika oi xaraktires toso exoterika alla kai esoterika exoun parastathei polu omorfa apo ton Jackson, kai pantou se oli tin trilogia vlepoume pos oi perissoteroi talanteuontai anamesa sto kalo kai to kako. O Frodo borei na mi to perimeneis sto telos na thelei na kratisei to daxtulidi, alla apo tin alli, vlepeis pos upoferei se oli tin tainia kai sto telos katalavaineis pos stigmatizetai apo tin pligi kai to daxtulidi. To Gollum an einai ena pragma gia to opoio einai toso gamato einai giati pote de xereis an einai kalo i kako kai perimeneis mexri tin teleutaia stigmi, kai malista sto trito meros o Jackson to kratise oso borouse mexri na deixei ti skini me tin araxni pou ton pagideuei. Oloi oi alloi, ma oloi, i Galadriel, o Boromir, akoma ki o Faramir deixnoun poso euthraustoi einai. De xero pos parousiazetai o Sam sto vivlio, alla stin tainia einai san autos pou pote den prokeitai na ton epireasei to daxtulidi, kati polu periergo, alla de to xero gia na po.
Opoies allages exoun ginei gia tin kaluteri sunoxi tis tainias de me enoxloun katholou eidika otan vgainei o Jackson kai xekataharizei oti to senario VASISTHKE sto vivlio kai den einai autousio. Genika pote den katalava giati kapoios na perimenei na dei stin megali othoni akrivos oti eixe fantastei apo ena vivlio. An itan etsi tha theorousa metria tin tainia epeidi perimena ta Orc allios ki epeidi o Gandalf einai magos, koinos Valar, kai eprepe na gamaei polu perissotero. Profanos omos de me enoxlisan giati vlepontas tin teleutaia skini me to gollum na feugei eutuxismeno exontas parei to daxtulidi, meta tin upoklisi sta Hobbits kai sto telos ton Aragorn na einai gamias, de borousa na zitiso tipota perissotero.
Ase pou oi Undead itan kalt. San xlorini, ta katharizan ola, o prasinos sifounas.
Malaka telika vgike polu megalo to post. De gamietai exo kanei kai megalutera.
Τα χόμπιτ τα παρατράβηξε... τελευταία σκηνή περιμέναμε γλωσσόφιλο Sam-Frodo :p Βεβαίως έπρεπε πράγματι να δείξει μια πολύ δυνατή φιλία μεταξύ τους (αλλά και μεταξύ Mery-Pippin). Η σκηνή με τον Σμίγκολ και τον αδερφό του μου άρεσε πολύ.
Για όσους παίζουμε RPG μεσαιωνικής φαντασίας, τα Όρκ μάλλον ήταν όπως τα περιμέναμε.
nikodimos
26-12-2003, 19:45
Mia enstash Fix, o Gandalf einai Maiar oxi Valar, einai sta epipeda enos Balrog dhladh.
/fanboy off
enitharmon
26-12-2003, 19:47
isaksios tou Sauron diladi :P
/fangirl over
Nai, berdeutika, malakia mou. Katavathos logo kalis mnimis tha borousa ki ego na gino fanboy alla meta tha me koitane perierga sto dromo, opos koitao ego esas. Entaxei Maiar einai, diladi mikros Valar, siga tora na poume. :P :P :P :P :P Tha megalosei kai tha ginei Valar to mounopano.
@Fixxer: sigoura to LOTR den ftanei oute to 30% tou Sil imo, alla diavase to, den tha me paraksenepsei na sou aresei perissotero telika.
Poly enthousiasmenous sas vlepw, ntaks kopste kati, den tha meinei kai klassikh, an htan etsi oi klassikes kahkame. Skata sth mourh tou Jackson, I second that an kai to meros 3 kseperase tis prosdokies mou ( epeidh ta stantar htan xamhla :P )
enitharmon
26-12-2003, 22:57
trava des peppermint!
daydreamer
27-12-2003, 04:05
Εγώ πάντως θεωρώ και τις 3 ταινίες ήδη κλασσικές...
Buddy Lackey
27-12-2003, 05:44
me too
alla kai to peppermint gamaei.
mias kai eipothike kati gia Udead...
htan THEIKOI...mou thymisan th legeona twn nekrwn romewn pou eixe stoixeiwsei thn pediada pou kataskhnose o Asterix kai o Obelix :lol: :lol: :lol:
kala oi undead...trela gelia! Pernousan san sifounes kai dialousan ta panta. cheaters! (sovara, htan apo ta geloia tou ergou.)
to da kai gw xtes kai gkamhse. prosexa gia too fake skhnes pou eipe h eni alla den eida kamia kraygalea, ta effe gamhsan pali. mono ta effe? kai h paramikrh leptomereia sto ergo gamhse.
2 enstaseis mono: teleiws apotomh h lhksh ths maxhs (ap'thn afiksh twn undead kai meta ta panta phgainan se fast forward style)
kai opws anafer8hke kai prin, oi polu arges skhnes sto telos...
vgainei o Jackson kai xekataharizei oti to senario VASISTHKE sto vivlio kai den einai autousio. Genika pote den katalava giati kapoios na perimenei na dei stin megali othoni akrivos oti eixe fantastei apo ena vivlio.'h oti akrivws leei ena vivlio. ayto h8ela na tonisw eksarxhs giati polloi einai oi gkao pou de to katalavainoun. ante gyriste thn eseis pista sto vivlio, an mporeite, na gousternete.
kai nai, 8a meinei classic. oxi mono gia to budget alla giati etsi einai.
btw LotR sto cinema ayth th fora sucked badly. paidikh xara htan.
ola ta cinema einai paidikes xares dystyxws.
Proswpika, den ithela mia aytousia metafora tou vivliou, aplws ithela na me kanei na niwsw kapoia pragmata pou eniwsa diavazontas. Ennoeitai oti to vivlio einai diaforetiko, giati ekei doulevei kai h fantasia sou. Egw tis krinw san tainies kai oxi san metafora, kai krinw to apotelesma metrio ews kalo (to kalo paei gia thn trith). Wstoso, tha ithela na mou peite giati tha meinei klassikh mia tetoia tainia.
enitharmon
27-12-2003, 19:11
- gia ta computer graphics (dimiourgisan kanourgia software gia na ylopoiisoun kapoia meri)
- gia to makigiaz
- gia ta kostoumia/opla/aksesouar (mi mou peis, oti den entypwsiastikes apo tis leptomereies)
- kai gia to oti einai i monadiki (ws twra) trilogia pou gyristike tautoxrona, me tous ithopoious na douleuoun panw apo ena xrono synexws.
ola ta cinema einai paidikes xares?????
xaxaxa..eprepe na eiste sto cinema pou to eida ego...
premiera tora...kai sta prota pente lepta ths provolhs arxizei ena vromoksylo!!!!!!! eixan mplextei kamia 15aria atoma kai epefte ksylo-feygan iptamena pop-korn kai cokes gia kana tetarto...eno h tainia epaize!
Retali-ator
28-12-2003, 03:22
epos!
giati egine tetoio pragma? :lol: 8)
enitharmon
28-12-2003, 03:23
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Carcass_
28-12-2003, 22:56
Paw na to dw gia 4h fora, se 2 writses.
Filakia.
katwrimos
29-12-2003, 03:45
"apotyxhmenoi " den einai aytoi pou den kanoun thn "teleia" metafora enos vivliou ston kinhmatografo, alla aytoi pou perimenoun ton kinhmatografo na kseperasei thn logotexnia.
Afto exei ginei uk oliges fores, i tainia diladi na kseperasei to vivlio. Aloste ego den eipa na einai isaksio to ergo me to vivlio, apla na einai stin idia katefthinsi, ligotero "holywood" diladi.
Epishs katwrime ektithesai oson afora to thema kako-Gollum/kalos-Frodo. Deixneis oti den exeis proseksei thn tainia. Einai fanero to poso o Frodo ephreazetai apo to daxtylidi, kathos kai h maxh pou dinei o Smeagol enantion tou Gollum.
O smeagol sto vivlio, apo ena simeio kai meta einai 50-50 me ton golum. Stin tainia o smeagol einai kati san i sinidisi tu golum, an den exeis diavasei ti vivlio, diskola mpaineis sto klima. Diladi o xaraktiras tu exei aplopoiithei ipervolika, opos kai oi perissoteroi xaraktires gia na ginei i tainia pio prositi sta 12xrona. Afto prosopika den me xalaei idietera, alla sigura einai enas logos pu i tainia den einai klasiki alla aplos kali.
"O.ti apotyponetai se xarti den einai senario.
Isos tha htan kalutera phgainontas na doume mia tainia na mhn perimenoume na thn dikasoume se sxesh me to vivlio alla na thn krinoume apla os tainia.
Etsi isos den tha peftame kai thymata aytwn twn emporikwn trik...
Sigura, alla sigrine tin tainia me to Braveheart px. Sigrine to vathos ton xaraktiron tu braveheart me tou LOTR kai tha katalaveis giati theoro tin tainia kalutsiki.
elfstone: fisika kai to ifos su einai logos na min su apantiso. An eisai toso apolitos stis apopseis su pio einai to noima?
Episis den egrapsa puthena oti o sauron einai ligo kalos. Eipa oti ORISMENOI apo tus kakous exun kala stoixeia (ta opoia stin tainia den fenontai puthena).
enitharmon
29-12-2003, 03:55
Paw na to dw gia 4h fora, se 2 writses.
Filakia.
eisai fanboy :thumbsup:
O smeagol sto vivlio, apo ena simeio kai meta einai 50-50 me ton golum. Stin tainia o smeagol einai kati san i sinidisi tu golum, an den exeis diavasei ti vivlio, diskola mpaineis sto klima. Diladi o xaraktiras tu exei aplopoiithei ipervolika, opos kai oi perissoteroi xaraktires gia na ginei i tainia pio prositi sta 12xrona. Afto prosopika den me xalaei idietera, alla sigura einai enas logos pu i tainia den einai klasiki alla aplos kali.
sth trith tainia, se anti8esh me to TTT, deixnei me thn prwth skhnh kai argotera ayto akrivws, to 50-50. den exw diavasei ti vivlio.
Sigura, alla sigrine tin tainia me to Braveheart px. Sigrine to vathos ton xaraktiron tu braveheart me tou LOTR kai tha katalaveis giati theoro tin tainia kalutsiki.
sygkrineis mhpws tainia me 1 prwtagwnisth, pou vasizetai kiolas se ena proswpo h istoria, me tainia pou o idios exeis apaithsh na provlh8oun kai oi 23423423 xarakthres to idio... ?
Buddy Lackey
29-12-2003, 06:47
prin eixe to alpha tous athlious .. pou einai oreo ergaki
o thorivos gia vivlio/tainia lotr fantazei xazos (pio xazos apo oso pragmatika einai) oso skeftomai oti se tosa alla vivlia (kai tous athlious px) exoun kopsei ta panta
oi athlioi px arxizoun apo to shmeio pou paei o agiannis ston papa, kai teleionoun ekei pou autoktonei o iaverhs
kai tosos thorivos den ginetai
eleos me tin gkrinia
oson afora to ksylo..kati egine me mia thesh (mallon ekatse kapoios se diaforetikh apo aythn pou eixe) kai meta mplexthke polus kosmos kai xathike h mpala...
katwrimos tha symfonhso me ton VirysXI, logo oikonomias xronou den mporousan na deixnoun thn kathe leptomereia toy KATHE xarakthra. Peraapo ayto den katalavaino giati den sou fainetai arketo ayto pou deixnei to Gollum gia na katalaveis tin diamaxa twn duo toy prosopikothtwn.
Kai genikotera skepsou oti eixan PARA POLLA na deiksoun (ki as eixan 3 tainies sthn diathesh tous). Opos eipa kai prin, allo na grafeis vivlio kai allo na gyrnas tainia.
Mporei na ekanan thn tainia eukolh gia 12-xrona, alla kai to LOTR ksekinhse na graftei os ena vivlio gia 12xrona!!! :)
prin eixe to alpha tous athlious .. pou einai oreo ergaki
o thorivos gia vivlio/tainia lotr fantazei xazos (pio xazos apo oso pragmatika einai) oso skeftomai oti se tosa alla vivlia (kai tous athlious px) exoun kopsei ta panta
oi athlioi px arxizoun apo to shmeio pou paei o agiannis ston papa, kai teleionoun ekei pou autoktonei o iaverhs
kai tosos thorivos den ginetai
eleos me tin gkrinia
mallon epeidh den yphrxe to internet tote 8)
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