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The Nerd
03-08-2005, 14:47
Apla para8etw ta ar8ra

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... wstop.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/08/03/ndavis03.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/08/03/ixnewstop.html)

Multicultural Britain is not working, says Tory chief
By George Jones, Political Editor
(Filed: 03/08/2005)

Muslims must start integrating into mainstream British society, says David Davis, the shadow home secretary and front-runner to take over the Conservative leadership.

Writing in The Daily Telegraph today, Mr Davis signalled a significant shift away from the policy of multi-culturalism, which allows people of different faiths and cultures to settle without expecting them to integrate.

David Davis
David Davis: ‘Muslims in turn have obligations not simply to condemn terror, but to confront it’

"Often, the authorities have seemed more concerned with encouraging distinctive identities rather than promoting the common values of nationhood," Mr Davis writes.

His call for a rethink of the approach to immigrant communities came as Hazel Blears, the Home Office minister, sought to reassure British Muslims that they were not being deliberately targeted by the Government's anti-terrorism powers.

After meeting Muslim leaders in Oldham, Miss Blears said the use of stop and search powers by police had to be "intelligence-led" and carried out in a non-discriminatory way. "The counter-terrorism powers are not targeting any community in particular, but are targeting terrorists," she said.

Her remarks represented a retreat from her earlier support for Ian Johnston, the Chief Constable of British Transport Police, who said young Asian men should be targeted and police should not waste time "searching old, white ladies".

Miss Blears received a mixed reception at the start of a tour of Asian communities. Riaz Ahmad, an Oldham Labour councillor, said he was glad there was no intention to "demonise" the Muslim community.

But Zahid Maqbool, the editor of a magazine for Asian youths, said not enough attention was being paid to the views of young Muslims.

Mr Davis's call for an end to multiculturalism is an indication of a fundamental rethink under way within the political parties and government over relations with the Muslim community after last month's suicide bomb attacks in London.

Although Tony Blair has rejected calls to restrict the growth of separate Muslim faith schools, Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, whose Blackburn constituency contains a large Asian community, said Muslim religious teachers and Islamic schools could be licensed.

Dominic Grieve, the shadow attorney general, said few politicians yet appreciated the sense of anger and alienation felt by many Muslims in Britain. He said the London suicide bombings were "totally explicable" because of the deep sense of anger over the Iraq war, a wider despair about the Islamic world and what Muslims saw as a "decadent" western society.

However, Miss Blears said there could be no justification "for people blowing themselves up and murdering hundreds of other people".

Mr Davis argues today that questions must be asked about how the "perverted values" of the suicide bomber were allowed to take root.

He says Trevor Phillips, the chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality, was right to call multiculturalism outdated.

"We should learn lessons from abroad, for example from the United States, where pride in the nation's values is much more prevalent among minorities than here," he says. "Above all, we must speak openly of what we expect of those who settle here - and of ourselves.

"Let us be clear. Non-Muslims have obligations to their Muslim fellow citizens - to strive for equal opportunities for all, to accept the mainstream version of Islam as a part of society and to reject the vile racism of the BNP and its like.

"But Muslims in turn have obligations: not simply to condemn terror, as one Labour MP put it, but to confront it."

He praised the Government's response to the London bombings and promised Tory support for tougher laws to catch and convict those preparing terrorist acts or inciting extremism.

Mr Davis calls for the establishment of a new border control police force to secure Britain's "porous" borders.

The process of granting British citizenship should be reviewed. It is "totally unacceptable" that one of the alleged bombers was given a British passport despite having a long record of bad conduct, including time in jail.

Mr Davis repeats the Tory call to review the Human Rights Act.

****************************************************
ar8ro toy idioy sthn daily telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main ... do0302.xml (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/08/03/do0302.xml)

Why cultural tolerance cuts both ways
By David Davis
(Filed: 03/08/2005)

A month ago, four terrorists travelled to London. They aimed to cause death and destruction, to change our way of life, and to set Muslim and non-Muslim against one other. Britain's response has been superb. The public has shown that however many people the terrorists kill, and however much carnage they cause, they will not be allowed to win.

Rather than setting communities against one another, the bombers' actions have united all faiths in facing down this new breed of terrorism. Political parties have also been united in their resolve to defeat the threat - a lesson learnt from Spain, where the political response to the attack on Madrid played straight into the terrorists' hands. The most important thing British politicians can do is to remain united and avoid knee-jerk responses. Any other response would be grossly irresponsible, and could easily encourage more attacks.

The Government has responded over the past month with sensible proposals to tighten existing legislation. Many aspects of these will get Opposition support, such as plans to make acts preparatory to terrorism a criminal offence, and to criminalise anyone who indirectly incites a terrorist act or provides terrorist training at home or abroad. This net needed widening, and these changes do that.

Our task is to ensure that these new laws will be effective and workable. The Government has to get them right first time. There is no room for mistakes. But this does not exempt us from a constructive critique of some of the Government's plans. We have reservations about proposals to extend the time-scale of detention without trial, for example. Ministers should also give clearer backing to the police's policy of stop and search, which, while controversial in some quarters, is obviously sensible. Nor should the prevailing political climate stop us proposing extra measures to increase Britain's security without sacrificing fundamental freedoms.

There are five things the Government could do that would gain our support. Firstly, it must secure Britain's porous borders. A new border control police force should be set up to ensure that every major port is manned day and night, to stop people entering the country illegally. Secondly, the Government should urgently review the process by which citizenship is granted. It is totally unacceptable that one of the alleged bombers was given a British passport despite having received a jail sentence and having a long record of bad conduct. British citizenship is a privilege, not a right. Thirdly, the Government should allow evidence from phone-taps to be used in the courtroom, making it easier to convict would-be terrorists and stop future attacks. Fourthly, the Government should appoint a Minister for Homeland Security to deal with the terrorist threat. Finally, ministers must show they are prepared to look again at whether the Human Rights Act stops them from ensuring that Britain is as safe as possible. This should include advocating its repeal, if necessary.

But the terrorist threat will not be beaten by security measures alone. Searching questions now have to be asked about what has been happening inside Britain's Muslim communities, and how the perverted values of the suicide bomber have been allowed to take root. Britain has pursued a policy of multiculturalism - allowing people of different cultures to settle without expecting them to integrate into society. Often the authorities have seemed more concerned with encouraging distinctive identities than with promoting common values of nationhood. The chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality has called multiculturalism "outdated". He is right. We should learn lessons from abroad - from the United States, where pride in the nation's values is much more prevalent among minorities than here. Above all, we must speak openly of what we expect of those who settle here - and of ourselves.

Let us be clear. Non-Muslims have obligations to their Muslim fellow citizens - to strive for equal opportunities for all, to accept the mainstream version of Islam as a part of society, and to reject the vile racism of the BNP and its like. But Muslims in turn have obligations: not simply to condemn terror, as one Labour MP put it, but to confront it.

In the past month, the vast majority of Muslims have queued up to denounce the outrages unleashed upon London. Senior Muslim leaders such as Dr Zaki Badawi, of the Muslim College, have spoken courageously and eloquently. But their thoughtful contributions are undermined by men such as Mohammad Naseem, the chairman of Birmingham's central mosque, who chose to focus his anger on the Government and security services, not on the men who set out to kill Londoners. People such as Mr Naseem do no favours to the Muslim community. After all, Muslims too are in the sights of the Islamic extremists.

Al-Qa'eda's long-term ambition is to eliminate moderate Islam altogether. It is therefore in the interests of moderate Muslims to support such measures as the extension of stop and search, the closing down of websites which support terror, the barring from Britain of clerics who support terrorist activity, and the licensing of visiting clerics.

Religious leaders have a special responsibility when those who commit crimes claim to be motivated by religion. We must acknowledge that there are good imams and bad imams. Most preach the true Muslim faith in a manner consistent with the society in which they live. Others, though, do not represent Islam properly and fail to understand the conventions of British society. Indeed, their aim is to destroy it. The Government must do more to encourage good imams to train here in Britain. Muslims themselves should help root out the bad ones.

Britain has a proud history of tolerance and respect towards people of different views, faiths and backgrounds. But we should not flinch from demanding the same tolerance and respect for the British way of life.

This is a large programme and it will take years to bring to fruition. But this wake-up call should spur us, as September 11 spurred America, to face up to what needs to be done. We must build a single nation in which every individual believes, of which each community is proud, and where all may prosper.

*****************************************************

Alla sxetika ar8ra:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main ... dl0301.xml (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/08/03/dl0301.xml)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... vis103.xml (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/08/03/ndavis103.xml)

Opoios kanei ton kopo na ta diavasei, as postarei kati ...

Pisteyete oti kati paromoio mporei na ginei kai sthn Ellada?
Mhpws 8a eprepe sthn Ellada na ginoyme ligo pio dektikoi pros toys metanastes, gia na apofeyx8oyn paromoia fainomena kai edw?
Den einai aparadekto poy px sthn A8hna den yparxei ena epishmo tzami kai oi moysoylmanoi anagkazontai na phgainoyn sta gnwsta ypogeia?
Mhpws 8a eprepe na eimaste xaroymenoi poy h pleionothta twn metanastwn sth xwra mas einai paremfereis me emas laoi? (Nai, gia toys Alvanoys lew ...)

Beh1nd_my_mind
03-08-2005, 15:56
Opoios kanei ton kopo na ta diavasei, as postarei kati ...

Pisteyete oti kati paromoio mporei na ginei kai sthn Ellada?
Mhpws 8a eprepe sthn Ellada na ginoyme ligo pio dektikoi pros toys metanastes, gia na apofeyx8oyn paromoia fainomena kai edw?
Den einai aparadekto poy px sthn A8hna den yparxei ena epishmo tzami kai oi moysoylmanoi anagkazontai na phgainoyn sta gnwsta ypogeia?
Mhpws 8a eprepe na eimaste xaroymenoi poy h pleionothta twn metanastwn sth xwra mas einai paremfereis me emas laoi? (Nai, gia toys Alvanoys lew ...)

Θα ήθελα να μου εξηγήσεις τι κοινά έχουμε με τους Αλβανούς και με βάση ποια επιχειρήματα είμαστε παρεμφερής λαός? Εσύ με τι ακριβώς χαίρεσαι για να μοιραστούμε και την χαρά σου? Μήπως είσαι Αλβανός? διότι ειλικρινά δεν θα δεχόμουν απο έναν Ελλήνα να υπερασπίζεται τόσο πολύ αυτούς τους άθεους

katwrimos
03-08-2005, 15:59
Θα ήθελα να μου εξηγήσεις τι κοινά έχουμε με τους Αλβανούς και με βάση ποια επιχειρήματα είμαστε παρεμφερής λαός? Εσύ με τι ακριβώς χαίρεσαι για να μοιραστούμε και την χαρά σου? Μήπως είσαι Αλβανός? διότι ειλικρινά δεν θα δεχόμουν απο έναν Ελλήνα να υπερασπίζεται τόσο πολύ αυτούς τους άθεους

Filaraki evgales singature apo to proto sou post. Eisai megalo talento!

UmbilicalResidue
03-08-2005, 16:07
But the terrorist threat will not be beaten by security measures alone. Searching questions now have to be asked about what has been happening inside Britain's Muslim communities, and how the perverted values of the suicide bomber have been allowed to take root. Britain has pursued a policy of multiculturalism - allowing people of different cultures to settle without expecting them to integrate into society. Often the authorities have seemed more concerned with encouraging distinctive identities than with promoting common values of nationhood. The chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality has called multiculturalism "outdated". He is right. We should learn lessons from abroad - from the United States, where pride in the nation's values is much more prevalent among minorities than here. Above all, we must speak openly of what we expect of those who settle here - and of ourselves.
Λοιπόν αυτή είναι μια πραγματικά πολύ καλη προσέγγιση.
Οι χειρισμοί που χρειάζονται έιναι πολύ λεπτοί (ειδικά τώρα που μιλάμε κατόπιν εορτής) αλλα είναι και μια πραγματικά ουσιαστική
λύση στο ζήτημα της καταπολέμισης των εξτρεμιστών στα πλαίσια
της μουσουλμανικης μειονότητας.


Britain has a proud history of tolerance and respect towards people of different views, faiths and backgrounds. But we should not flinch from demanding the same tolerance and respect for the British way of life.
αυτό είναι μπαχαχα αλλα το παραβλέπουμε.


Religious leaders have a special responsibility when those who commit crimes claim to be motivated by religion. We must acknowledge that there are good imams and bad imams. Most preach the true Muslim faith in a manner consistent with the society in which they live. Others, though, do not represent Islam properly and fail to understand the conventions of British society. Indeed, their aim is to destroy it. The Government must do more to encourage good imams to train here in Britain. Muslims themselves should help root out the bad ones.
Εντάξει αυτό όπως και αρκετά άλλα είναι αρκετά προφανή, παντως
είναι ενδιαφέρον που ένας τόρι διατυπώνει αρκετά μετρημένες
σκέψεις ειδικά τώρα και τονίζει οτι το πραγματικό λά8ος ήταν η αφομοίωση και όχι το ελλειπές σεκουριταντ.

Το πρόβλημα που παρουσιάζεται ώστόσο είναι να
ενδιαφέρεσαι για μια υγιή ενοποιημένη κοινωνία με σεβασμό
στις διάφορες κουλτούρες και φροντίδα για την συλλογική
λειτουργία (under nation's pride που λέει ο φλώρος) και να
αποβάλεις τα εξτρέμ. Γιατι υπάρχει και η λιγότερο αισιόδοξη
σκοπία του να αρχίσεις τις μαζικές συγχωνεύσεις των μειονοτήτων
και να ρημάξεις σπασμωδικά την πολυπολιτισμική σου κοινωνία
για να την κάνεις ουδέτερη και ακίνδυνη.

Beh1nd_my_mind
03-08-2005, 16:08
Και τι να λέει......Μάζευε και ας είναι και ρώγες!!!!!!

freak brother
03-08-2005, 17:25
[quote="The Nerd":2rrzwhtf]Opoios kanei ton kopo na ta diavasei, as postarei kati ...

Pisteyete oti kati paromoio mporei na ginei kai sthn Ellada?
Mhpws 8a eprepe sthn Ellada na ginoyme ligo pio dektikoi pros toys metanastes, gia na apofeyx8oyn paromoia fainomena kai edw?
Den einai aparadekto poy px sthn A8hna den yparxei ena epishmo tzami kai oi moysoylmanoi anagkazontai na phgainoyn sta gnwsta ypogeia?
Mhpws 8a eprepe na eimaste xaroymenoi poy h pleionothta twn metanastwn sth xwra mas einai paremfereis me emas laoi? (Nai, gia toys Alvanoys lew ...)

Θα ήθελα να μου εξηγήσεις τι κοινά έχουμε με τους Αλβανούς και με βάση ποια επιχειρήματα είμαστε παρεμφερής λαός? Εσύ με τι ακριβώς χαίρεσαι για να μοιραστούμε και την χαρά σου? Μήπως είσαι Αλβανός? διότι ειλικρινά δεν θα δεχόμουν απο έναν Ελλήνα να υπερασπίζεται τόσο πολύ αυτούς τους άθεους[/quote:2rrzwhtf]

XXAXAXAXAXAXAXAXAXAXAXAXAX
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

carheart
03-08-2005, 18:07
Θα ήθελα να μου εξηγήσεις τι κοινά έχουμε με τους Αλβανούς και με βάση ποια επιχειρήματα είμαστε παρεμφερής λαός? Εσύ με τι ακριβώς χαίρεσαι για να μοιραστούμε και την χαρά σου? Μήπως είσαι Αλβανός? διότι ειλικρινά δεν θα δεχόμουν απο έναν Ελλήνα να υπερασπίζεται τόσο πολύ αυτούς τους άθεους

apo enan ti?

peran autou, eisai tragikos paparas

The Nerd
03-08-2005, 19:37
[quote="The Nerd":2jeht38t]Opoios kanei ton kopo na ta diavasei, as postarei kati ...

Pisteyete oti kati paromoio mporei na ginei kai sthn Ellada?
Mhpws 8a eprepe sthn Ellada na ginoyme ligo pio dektikoi pros toys metanastes, gia na apofeyx8oyn paromoia fainomena kai edw?
Den einai aparadekto poy px sthn A8hna den yparxei ena epishmo tzami kai oi moysoylmanoi anagkazontai na phgainoyn sta gnwsta ypogeia?
Mhpws 8a eprepe na eimaste xaroymenoi poy h pleionothta twn metanastwn sth xwra mas einai paremfereis me emas laoi? (Nai, gia toys Alvanoys lew ...)

Θα ήθελα να μου εξηγήσεις τι κοινά έχουμε με τους Αλβανούς και με βάση ποια επιχειρήματα είμαστε παρεμφερής λαός? Εσύ με τι ακριβώς χαίρεσαι για να μοιραστούμε και την χαρά σου? Μήπως είσαι Αλβανός? διότι ειλικρινά δεν θα δεχόμουν απο έναν Ελλήνα να υπερασπίζεται τόσο πολύ αυτούς τους άθεους[/quote:2jeht38t]

Giati mwrh kota trilirh den postareis me to kanoniko soy account?

Deggial
03-08-2005, 21:03
Θα ήθελα να μου εξηγήσεις τι κοινά έχουμε με τους Αλβανούς και με βάση ποια επιχειρήματα είμαστε παρεμφερής λαός? Εσύ με τι ακριβώς χαίρεσαι για να μοιραστούμε και την χαρά σου? Μήπως είσαι Αλβανός? διότι ειλικρινά δεν θα δεχόμουν απο έναν Ελλήνα να υπερασπίζεται τόσο πολύ αυτούς τους άθεους

Χααχχαχααχχαχαχα, τα σπάει. Κρίμα που τράβηξε τη προσοχή περισσότερο από το ποστ του Nerd.

phthoggon
04-08-2005, 04:00
There are five things the Government could do that would gain our support. Firstly, it must secure Britain's porous borders. A new border control police force should be set up to ensure that every major port is manned day and night, to stop people entering the country illegally.

= Fort Europa


Finally, ministers must show they are prepared to look again at whether the Human Rights Act stops them from ensuring that Britain is as safe as possible. This should include advocating its repeal, if necessary

Δηλαδή πολύ απλά Britain>Human Rights. Ο Bush της Βρετανίας δηλαδή, με άλλα λόγια.

rincewind2k
04-08-2005, 04:21
keep banging on the walls of fortress europe.

Atheist
04-08-2005, 14:39
διότι ειλικρινά δεν θα δεχόμουν απο έναν Ελλήνα να υπερασπίζεται τόσο πολύ αυτούς τους άθεους

Σκατά στους άθεους.

Lost_In_Cooperland
04-08-2005, 17:51
διότι ειλικρινά δεν θα δεχόμουν απο έναν Ελλήνα να υπερασπίζεται τόσο πολύ αυτούς τους άθεους

Σκατά στους άθεους.

πέστα ρε Atheist

The Nerd
09-08-2005, 12:12
Britain's ethnic communities have been dismayed by a suggestion from a government minister that they should "rebrand" their identities in an attempt to inspire greater patriotism.

The Home Office minister, Hazel Blears, said that Muslim and minority groups should be asked if they wanted to be referred to by terms such as Asian-British, Pakistani-British or Indian-British, rather than simply as "Asians". She would be floating the idea at a series of meetings with Muslim leaders this summer, she said.

But a Downing Street spokeswoman emphasised yesterday that this was not something the Government was actively promoting, after the idea received a cool response from Muslim leaders.

"This is something that has been put to Hazel Blears in meetings. It is not something she suggested. It is not something that the Government is proposing or suggesting," the spokeswoman said.

In an interview with The Times, Ms Blears, who was appointed head of a government commission on integrating minorities, said that it might be useful to adhere to an American US-style identity system. "In America, they do seem to have the idea that you're an Italian-American or you're an Irish-American, and that's quite interesting," she said.

"I am going to talk to people and ask how does that feel? It is about your identity and I think it's really important.

"I think it's really important, if you want a society that is really welded together, there are certain things that unite us because you are British, but you can be a bit different too." Sir Iqbal Sacranie, the general secretary of the Muslim Council of Britain, was irritated by Ms Blears' suggestion. "What of the second generations? Why should they be defined as other than British?" he asked.

"These forms of identity based on ethnic background have been tried in the past and have failed," Sir Iqbal said yesterday.

Ghayasuddin Siddiqui, of the Muslim Parliament, said: "Nobody cares for labels. We have to create a stakeholding society and an inclusive society."

Manzoor Moghal, chairman of the Muslim Forum, said that the idea would be deeply divisive. "It would create a lower strata of British.

"It gives people labels and dilutes their citizenship compared to original, white British people. It is not helpful in creating the togetherness that they have been talking about," Mr Moghal said.

Inayat Bunglawala, senior spokesman from the Muslim Council of Britain said "it makes no sense" to re-categorise British citizens in this way and that it could only be reductive. Mr Bunglawala said he would be more inclined to support a faith-based label, such as "British Muslim".

How we want to be described

SARAH JOSEPH, editor of the Muslim magazine EMEL

"I think we should decide ourselves what to call ourselves. Are we trying to create grades of being British? I'm sure Hazel Blears has good intentions but the Government has been faced with a problem and it's grasping at straws. The issues we are facing are complicated and we can't spin ourselves out of the present dilemma or rebrand ourselves. We are not a margarine. Instead of rebranding ethnic minorities, the Government should be fostering a sense of belonging."

Retali-ator
09-08-2005, 14:38
exw oi ypanthropoi tis asias kai tis afrikis apo tin europi :evil:

freak brother
09-08-2005, 16:11
exw oi ypanthropoi tis asias kai tis afrikis apo tin europi :evil:

exw oi ypanthrwpoi tou black kai tou true metal apo to e.r

phthoggon
09-08-2005, 17:44
exw oi ypanthropoi tis asias kai tis afrikis apo tin europi :evil:

:P :P Οκ, εδώ αρχίζουν τα ωραία. Για δώσε το ορισμό σου για τον "υπάνθρωπο" άμα γουστάρεις.

The Nerd
09-08-2005, 18:17
exw oi ypanthropoi tis asias kai tis afrikis apo tin europi :evil:

E3w oi ypan8rwpoi ths Mesogeioy apo thn Voreia/Dytikh eyrwph

FIXXXER
09-08-2005, 18:22
1. Ego giati den exo dei kai toso akraia fainomena ratsismou stin Ellada? Isa isa pou oloi lene poso plaka exoun oi mauroukoi kai ti kaloi anthropoi einai... a miso lepto!! Ennoouses kai tous Alvanous os thumata ratsismou Nerd?? Sorry, de katalava oti milame gia otidipote zontano ki oxi mono gia anthropous. (kafros mode off)

2. Idea mou i o Nerd exei exelixthei se gamo ta atoma ton teleutaio kairo?

UmbilicalResidue
09-08-2005, 18:38
χαχα φοράει δημοκρατικό-σοβαρό προσωπείο.
κατατάλλα μούτζα φιξξξερ να μη ξεχνιόμαστε μωρό.

The Nerd
09-08-2005, 22:26
χαχα φοράει δημοκρατικό-σοβαρό προσωπείο.
κατατάλλα μούτζα φιξξξερ να μη ξεχνιόμαστε μωρό.

Nai, milaw gia alvanoys, tsigganoys, slavoys ktl kai oxi mono araphdes.

Oso gia ta bold :wink: :wink: