THANATIKH KATADIKH

[BeBiTo]

PISTEVETE OTI H THANATIKH KATADIKH EINAI SWSTO SAN NOMOS SE KAPIES DH8EN POLITISMENES XWRES?

[Angrafan]

...

[irreligious]

kata...den diorthoneis tipota me to na kaneis to idio

[Amnesiac.]

(s)kata. oi logoi einai oi eksis :

[The Butcher]

PISTEVETE OTI H THANATIKH KATADIKH EINAI SWSTO SAN NOMOS SE KAPIES DH8EN POLITISMENES XWRES?
oxi.

[BLiTzER]

"Yper" giati merikoi ontos to aksizoun.

"Kata" oso de mporei na efarmostei xoris "parapleyres apoleies".

[The_Emperor]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0289992/

deite aythn thn tainia ki ystera apanthste...theos o spacey parepiptontos...

[Retali-ator]

kapoios evlepe Green Mile sto Star mallon,kai tou rthe kai to topic

[Buddy Lackey]

against

[BLiTzER]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0289992/

deite aythn thn tainia ki ystera apanthste...theos o spacey parepiptontos...

To exo dei kai einai koryfaio btw. Gi'ayto kai h "parenthesh" sthn arxikh mou apanthsh ;P

[BeBiTo]

oxi to topic einai epireasmeno ap thn tainia Monster's Ball pou thn 3anaeida to meshmeri.

[freak brother]

thanatikh poinh sautous pou xoune tatoo klepsudres

[Angrafan]

:lol:

[Buddy Lackey]

eidika se selofan

[freak brother]

o xartaetos to site yparxei akoma re?

[BLiTzER]

lol kammenos

[Angrafan]

Yparxei alla meta apo kapoies teleftees ekselikseis na eisai sigouros oti tha ginei update poly syntoma

[BeBiTo]

nai phgene sto:
http://www.paper-eagle.zk.hr
p:

[FIXXXER]

Ego psifisa nai alla einai polu amfilegomeno thema... diladi entaxei, otan exeis ena malaka pou paei kai viazei 5xrona koritsakia kai agorakia kai xereis oti einai ena palioarxidi kai miso, ti na peis... apo tin alli, to na ton skotoneis einai san na tou kaneis xari eno tha borouses na ton baleis stin fulaki isovia stin apomonosi na xasei to mualo tou kai na niothei skata gia 40 xronia... de xero, ama ginei lathos kai o allos exei parei ton boulo, meta ti kaneis?

[Buddy Lackey]

na tou kopseis to pouli

[FIXXXER]

Oxi, ennoousa an ginei lathos katadiki kai o allos exei ektelesthei, ti kaneis tote? Sorry pou se skotosame?

[Buddy Lackey]

polloi eidame green mile xthes

[FIXXXER]

Ba, sto cinema to eixa dei...alloste o mauros an ithele den pethaine, itan kati san lutrotis. Episis, einai Stephen King opote ti perimeneis.

[ang69]

Eimai kata gia ton aploustato logo oti gia mena to nohma tou olou swfrwnistikou systhmatos vrisketai sto onoma tou, pou to exoume 3exasei.

Swfrwnismos kai oxi timwria. Na prospa8hseis dhladh na "8erapeuseis" ton allo kai na ton (epan)enta3eis sthn koinwnia. An auto de ginetai, na ton krathseis makria apo thn koinwnia (px isovia fylakish).

8a mou peite, opws exw akousei arketa syxna, "kai giati na taizoume me ta lefta mas oi forologoumenoi polites tous egklhmaties stis fylakes?". H apanthsh pou dinw egw einai pws an auto mporei na dwsei th dynatothta se kapoious an8rwpous na "dior8w8oun" kai na epaner8oun ws energa melh ths koinwnias pou mporoun na prosferoun anti na kanoun kako, einai kalo pragma kai a3izei. E3allou ta lefta twn forwn mas ta trwne diaforoi alloi kai gia pio axrhsta pragmata.

Dystyxws ola auta einai se epipedo e3idanikeumeno. H pragmatikothta einai diaforetikh giati exoume na kanoume me an8rwpous (ara atelh onta, me adynamies, elattwmata klp). To swfrwnistiko systhma mono swfrwnistiko den einai. Einai perissotero ekdikhtiko, xeirotereuei thn katastash kai dhmiourgei perissoterous egklhmaties anti gia to anti8eto pou 8a eprepe na kanei.

3efeugontas ligaki apo to sygkekrimeno 8ema ths 8anatikhs poinhs kai genikeuontas na proteinw thn tainia Das Experiment
kai tsekarete kai to site http://www.prisonexp.org/ pou einai perigrafh enos peiramatos pou egine prin 30 peripou xronia sto panepisthmio tou Stanford.

[Dragonlord]

auto axrivws

[BLiTzER]

Oxi, ennoousa an ginei lathos katadiki kai o allos exei ektelesthei, ti kaneis tote? Sorry pou se skotosame?

Ayto einai entelos plasmatiko epixeirhma Fixxxer. Dld an exei ginei lathos kai o typos exei faei 30 xronia fylakh, ti kaneis? Ton eleytheroneis kai ola kala? Same shit... apla tous fylakismenous tous plhronoume mia zoh kai exoun panta thn elpida na ksefygoun ;P

Oso gia to allo.. merikoi den aksizoun oute na metaniosoun, oute na diorthothoun, oute kan na anapneoun. An evgaine enas typos kai viaze thn 5xronh koroula sou ang69 de tha allazes gnomh?

[freak brother]

h malakia einai oti tous plhrwnoume tosa xronia pou nai fulakh.. vasika tha prepe na tous vazame se katanagkastika erga kietsi .. apto olotela kala den tha tan na doulevoun ena 6 wro?

[Deggial]

Συμφωνώ απόλυτα με την ang. Ο σκοπός μιας ποινής πρέπει να είναι ο σοφρωνισμός κι όχι η εκδίκηση ή στεγνά μια τιμωρία.

Επίσης, στο παρελθόν (άλλα μέχρι και σήμερα σε περιοχές όπως η Κίνα), η θανατική καταδίκη έχει χρησιμοποιηθεί ως τρόπος εξόντωσης πολιτικών αντιπάλων. Ή για να μη πηγαίνουμε σε μέρη μακρινά όπως η Κίνα, και στην Ελλάδα στη περίφημη Δίκη των Έξι, και παλαιότερα.

[ang69]

[zER] An evgaine enas typos kai viaze thn 5xronh koroula sou ang69 de tha allazes gnomh?

Epishs plasmatiko epixeirhma dioti einai ypo8etiko.

Parola auta 8a sou apanthsw. O,ti ki an tou kanoun to kako pou 8a exei pa8ei h korh mou den prokeitai na e3afanistei. 8a exei ginei kai 8a yparxei panta. Ara me to na ton pareis ton allo kai na ton valeis s'ena keli na sernetai 'h kai na ton skotwseis den prokeitai na kanei tipota (isws na prosferei ena pseutiko ais8hma "dikaiwshs" se mena, to opoio omws de 8a krathsei gia poly otan 8a prepei na gyrisw sthn pragmatikothta kai sta psyxologika provlhmata pou 8a kouvalaei h korh mou mia zwh). Eidika sthn periptwsh ths fylakishs se syn8hkes opws einai oi parouses sta 'swfrwnistika idrymata', oxi mono "8a ton plhrwnw" opws anaferate alla kai epipleon me ton tropo pou 8a tou fer8oun 8a ginei xeiroteros apo o,ti htan prin kai de 8a syneidhtopoihsei oti auto pou ekane htan la8os, me apotelesma me thn prwth eukairia na epanalavei auto kai xeirotera akoma.

To na "3efortwnomaste" tous egklhmaties skotwnontas tous einai mallon o eukolos dromos, prokeimenou na asxolh8ei h politeia mazi tous pio sovara kai pio apotelesmatika kai vasizetai stis antidraseis tou 8ymikou twn politwn pou zhtoun "ekdikhsh".


[zER]Oso gia to allo.. merikoi den aksizoun oute na metaniosoun, oute na diorthothoun, oute kan na anapneoun.
De nomizw oti einai kaneis (oute oti 8a einai pote) armodios na krinei an se kapoion a3izei 'h oxi na zei.

[freak brother]

opws lene kai oi metallica

who made you god to sayyyy ill take the life from youuuu
flashhhh before my eyesssss nowwww its time to dieeeee
burning in my brainnnnn i can feel the painnnnn

an ekana kana lathos sugxwreiste me exw na to akousw to kommati 3-4 xronia :p

[BLiTzER]

Epishs plasmatiko epixeirhma dioti einai ypo8etiko.

Den htan epixeirhma. Mia aplh erothsh htan :)


Parola auta 8a sou apanthsw. O,ti ki an tou kanoun to kako pou 8a exei pa8ei h korh mou den prokeitai na e3afanistei. 8a exei ginei kai 8a yparxei panta. Ara me to na ton pareis ton allo kai na ton valeis s'ena keli na sernetai 'h kai na ton skotwseis den prokeitai na kanei tipota (isws na prosferei ena pseutiko ais8hma "dikaiwshs" se mena, to opoio omws de 8a krathsei gia poly otan 8a prepei na gyrisw sthn pragmatikothta kai sta psyxologika provlhmata pou 8a kouvalaei h korh mou mia zwh).

Ara efoson den yparxei periptosh na epanelthei h korh sou, eite timorithei, eite oxi gia to egklhma tou einai to idio. Ayto mou les, sosta? To pisteyeis pragmatika ayto h apla leme gia na leme?


Eidika sthn periptwsh ths fylakishs se syn8hkes opws einai oi parouses sta 'swfrwnistika idrymata', oxi mono "8a ton plhrwnw" opws anaferate alla kai epipleon me ton tropo pou 8a tou fer8oun 8a ginei xeiroteros apo o,ti htan prin kai de 8a syneidhtopoihsei oti auto pou ekane htan la8os, me apotelesma me thn prwth eukairia na epanalavei auto kai xeirotera akoma.

Gi'ayto osoi den prokeitai na "sofronistoun" mporoun kallista na ektelountai ;P


To na "3efortwnomaste" tous egklhmaties skotwnontas tous einai mallon o eukolos dromos, prokeimenou na asxolh8ei h politeia mazi tous pio sovara kai pio apotelesmatika kai vasizetai stis antidraseis tou 8ymikou twn politwn pou zhtoun "ekdikhsh".

Sigoura einai o eykolos dromos. Apla sth sygkekrimenh periptosh pisteyo oti einai kai o sostos.


De nomizw oti einai kaneis (oute oti 8a einai pote) armodios na krinei an se kapoion a3izei 'h oxi na zei.

Perimena oti kapoios tha to elege ayto kai en merei symfono. Apo thn allh, pisteyo oti h ypotithemenh koroula sou tha eixe allh apopsh..

[BLiTzER]

Sostos hsoun freak, alla to tragoudi anaferetai sthn ektelesh enos athoou.

"Guilty as charged
But dammit it ain't right"..


Logia tou Hetfield: "I believe in capital punishment, but it was more about the idea of being strapped in the electric chair even though you didn't commit the crime."

[Dragonlord]

[zER]Ara efoson den yparxei periptosh na epanelthei h korh sou, eite timorithei, eite oxi gia to egklhma tou einai to idio. Ayto mou les, sosta? To pisteyeis pragmatika ayto h apla leme gia na leme?

Na prospa8hseis dhladh na "8erapeuseis" ton allo kai na ton (epan)enta3eis sthn koinwnia. An auto de ginetai, na ton krathseis makria apo thn koinwnia (px isovia fylakish).

[enitharmon]

3efeugontas ligaki apo to sygkekrimeno 8ema ths 8anatikhs poinhs kai genikeuontas na proteinw thn tainia Das Experiment
kai tsekarete kai to site http://www.prisonexp.org/ pou einai perigrafh enos peiramatos pou egine prin 30 peripou xronia sto panepisthmio tou Stanford.
mou eksigeis ligo to skeptiko sou? giati kollaei auti i tainia sto thema?

[BLiTzER]

Oust dikhgore dragonlord :P

Anyway, pisteyo oti an sou tyxei kati analogo oute 10 fores isovia de tha sou ftanoun. Toulaxiston etsi to vlepo ego. An eye for an eye...

[ang69]

3efeugontas ligaki apo to sygkekrimeno 8ema ths 8anatikhs poinhs kai genikeuontas na proteinw thn tainia Das Experiment
kai tsekarete kai to site http://www.prisonexp.org/ pou einai perigrafh enos peiramatos pou egine prin 30 peripou xronia sto panepisthmio tou Stanford.
mou eksigeis ligo to skeptiko sou? giati kollaei auti i tainia sto thema?

Opws eipa s'ekeino to post, epekteina ligo to 8ema apo th 8anatikh poinh, stis poines genikotera, h dhmofilesterh ek twn opoiwn einai h fylakish. H tainia kai to site "e3hgoun" kata kapoio tropo, giati ta swfrwnistika idrymata den einai swfrwnistika alla ena meros ekdikhshs. Epishs e3hgei auto pou eipa peri an8rwpinhs fyshs kai adynamias, to opoio den to lew mono gia autous pou diaprattoun ta egklhmata alla kai gia ekeinous oi opoioi exoun epwmistei thn eu8ynh "swfrwnismou" tous.

Me dyo logia e3hgei giati oi fylakes einai opws einai ki oxi opws 8a eprepe na einai (idrymata epanenta3hs).

[enitharmon]

xmmm... vrika ligo astoxi tin anafora tou Experiment, giati i tainia diapragmateutai mono tin anthrwpini fysi kai pws ekmetalleuetai o kathenas tin eksousia pou tou dinetai... apo ti stigmi omws pou eimaste se thesi na gnwrizoume (peripou, mesw psychologikwn test), poios "trellainetai" otan mporei na askei eksousia kai poios oxi, tha mporousame na epilegoume tous katallilous swfronistikous ypallilous kai oxi ton kathe komplexiko.
ektos autou, sto Experiment, to "taraxopoio stoixeio" (o Bleibtreu) einai toso antidrastiko, epeidi den pairnei tin katastasi sta sovara kai empaizei tous fylakes. an itan pio "fovismenos" (opws o sygkratoumenos tou sto keli), ola mallon tha eixan pio omali ekvasi.

Alla mallon katalavainw pou to pas :P

[enitharmon]

den apantisa sto topic: eimai kata tis thanatikis katadikis, opws eipe kai i ang, me to na ton skotwsoume to mpastardo de vgainei tipota.... ta katanagkastika erga einai mia yperoxi kai prosodofwra lysi (xwris meiwsi tis poinis omws), opws kai i synexis psychologiki parakolouthisi (omws gia to teleutaio no money...)

[Deggial]

xmmm... vrika ligo astoxi tin anafora tou Experiment, giati i tainia diapragmateutai mono tin anthrwpini fysi kai pws ekmetalleuetai o kathenas tin eksousia pou tou dinetai... apo ti stigmi omws pou eimaste se thesi na gnwrizoume (peripou, mesw psychologikwn test), poios "trellainetai" otan mporei na askei eksousia kai poios oxi, tha mporousame na epilegoume tous katallilous swfronistikous ypallilous kai oxi ton kathe komplexiko.
ektos autou, sto Experiment, to "taraxopoio stoixeio" (o Bleibtreu) einai toso antidrastiko, epeidi den pairnei tin katastasi sta sovara kai empaizei tous fylakes. an itan pio "fovismenos" (opws o sygkratoumenos tou sto keli), ola mallon tha eixan pio omali ekvasi.

Alla mallon katalavainw pou to pas :P

Όχι ακριβώς. Αλλά καλύτερα ας αναφερθώ στο πείραμα που έγινε πριν 30 χρόνια, παρά στη ταινία.

Το πραγματικό πείραμα τέλειωσε σε 5 μέρες (πριν την προκαθορισμένη ημερομηνία λήξεως), κατά την οποία χρησιμοποιήθηκαν συνήθεις μέθοδοι αντιμετώπισης των κρατουμένων: δέσιμο των ποδιών με αλυσίδα-βαρίδιο, απαγόρευση ονομάτων (οι κρατούμενοι καλούνται μόνο με τον αριθμό τους), κ.λ.π.

Το πιο σημαντικό γεγονός του πειράματος είναι πως οι "δεσμοφύλακες" πολύ νωρίς άρχισαν να πιστεύουν πως είναι πραγματικοί δεσμοφύλακες, πόσο μάλλον οι κρατούμενοι. Ιδιαίτερα για τους τελευταίους, όταν ήρθε ένας παπάς που ενδιαφερόταν να μιλήσει μαζί τους και για το πείραμα, οι κρατούμενοι εξακολουθούσαν να αναφέρουν τον αριθμό τους κι όχι το όνομά τους (αν και βρίσκονταν προσωρινά εκτός πειράματος).

Οι δε επιστήμονες άρχισαν να νιώθουν Διευθυντές φυλακής (ιδιαίτερα όταν βγήκε η φήμη πως νεαροί θα επιτίθονταν στη "φυλακή) και αυτό αποτέλεσε και το λόγο λήξης του πειράματος - όταν ένας τρίτος παρατηρητής (η γκόμενα του ψυχίατρου) τους ενέδειξε το γεγονός αυτό.

Από εκεί και πέρα, οι σχετικά ήπιες τακτικές των "δεσμοφύλακων" (σε σύγκριση με το τι γίνεται πραγματικά σε μια φυλακή) είχαν ως αποτέλεσμα οι "κρατούμενοι" να χάσουν κάθε ίχνος αίσθησης ατομικότητας, καθώς και να σπάνε σε λυγμούς (ιδιαίτερα όταν ήρθε ο παπάς), κ.λ.π.

Αυτά λοιπόν για το παρών "σοφρωνιστικό" σύστημα των (κατά τα άλλα) πολιτισμένων κοινωνιών.

[Faithless Spirit]

to oti to sofronistiko susthma den douleuei opws tha eprepe den shmainei oti gurname pisw sto lithovolismo..

to oti autos o anthrwpos sukothike mia mera kai viase to 5xrono den einai epidi den eixe tpt na kanei ston elethero xrono tou kai eipe na arxisei mia "drasthriothta".. kati paei lathos me auton ton anthropo, kai an den pisteuete (den thimame onomata twra) kapioi oti den aksizoun ta xrhmata mas tote na pame na skotosoume kai osous pasxoun apo aniates arwsties kai xrhmatodotountai apo to kratos.. etsi giati afou tha pethanoun pou tha pethanoun mhn mas xreonoun kiolas..
kai an den aksizoun anthropoi ta lefta mas sthn telikh, ti ta aksizei?

kai ola auta vevea xwris ton paragonta "lathos"

[BLiTzER]

to oti to sofronistiko susthma den douleuei opws tha eprepe den shmainei oti gurname pisw sto lithovolismo..

to oti autos o anthrwpos sukothike mia mera kai viase to 5xrono den einai epidi den eixe tpt na kanei ston elethero xrono tou kai eipe na arxisei mia "drasthriothta".. kati paei lathos me auton ton anthropo

Ayto standar. Ti thes na peis? Oti de ftaiei? Me thn idia logikh de ftaiei oute o dolofonos, oute o viasths, oute o klefths, oute kanenas. Na katarghsoume tis poines opoioudhpote eidous (kai tis fylakes eventually) kai na anoiksoume pararthmata tou erythrou stayrou..


kai an den pisteuete (den thimame onomata twra) kapioi oti den aksizoun ta xrhmata mas tote na pame na skotosoume kai osous pasxoun apo aniates arwsties kai xrhmatodotountai apo to kratos.. etsi giati afou tha pethanoun pou tha pethanoun mhn mas xreonoun kiolas..

Kala den edosa idiaiterh vash sto oikonomiko, giati pros to paron de forologoumai, opote kai de me kaiei. Par'ol'ayta epimeno sto "an eye for an eye" (symfona me to opoio to paradeigma sou peri aniaton astheneion einai akyro). Sigoura de tha trellainomoun idiaitera na plhrono thn "epanentaksh" tou viasth ths korhs mou sthn koinonia pantos..

[rincewind2k]

so thisavrofylakio (me to mikroutsiko :oops: ) mia fora eixa dei oti sthn amerikh stamathsan tis ekteleseis giati kostizan pio poly apo tous isobious (25eteis, whatever) egkleismous

gia ta ypoloipa pou syzhtate, ftaiei apla h pseydaisthish tou anthrwpou oti einai ekseligmenos kai politismenos...

[freak brother]

proteinw varuteres poines gia ta varia adikhmata.. se fash 20 xronia katanagkastikhs ergasias 10 wro sto ika.. h kati paromoio.. na deite pws tha parei ta panw ths h ellhnikh oikonomia meta..

[BLiTzER]

Den tous endiaferei na parei ta pano ths, giati etsi ki allios exoun na ksexreonoun gia tis epomenes treis 100eties :P

[Oriion]

To thema tithetai polu aploika kai den mporei na exei monolektikh apanthsh.

Kat'arxn prepei na ksekatharisoume gia ti eidous adikhma syzhtame thn efarmogh h oxi ths thanatikhs poinhs.

Apo ekei kai pera to thema exei toulaxiston 3 diastaseis: thn hthikh, thn oikonomikh, kai thn leitoyrgikh.

Arxizontas apo thn oikonomikh, thn opoia theoro kai thn ligotero shmantikh, einai profanes oti oi forologoumenoi plhronoun arketa karagkiozilikia...mporoun loipon na plhrosoun kai 5-10 mlkes akoma pou tha eixan ektelestei diaforetika. Ade pou syzhtithike to oikonomiko les kai prokeitai na ektelountan 5000-6000 kosmos kai tha glutone to kratos kanena sovaro varos.... Milame gia elaxistes periptiseis analogika me tous fulakismenoys.
kai skefthte kai to allo: o xoros pou tha pianoun oi ektelesmenoi sta nekrotafeia tha meionei thn prosfora tafwn, ayksanontas thn timh toys kai dhmiourgontas ena oikonomiko baros to opoio telika pali o forologoumenos poliths tha epwmistei otan tha xreiastei tafo...:)

H leitourgikh diastash exei na kanei me to poso h thanatikh poinh tha eksyphretoyse ta symferonta kai tiw epidiokseis ths politeias. An dld tha boithouse sthn eyrythmia, thn diathrhsh ths taksis mia politeias klp. Apo ayth thn apopsi (logw toy oti oi poines leitourgoun paradeigmatika) isos na eixe kapoia xrhsimothta. Kai ayto omos eksartatai apo thn koinwnia...den pisteyo na eixe paradeigmatistikes idiothtes se mia indouistikh koinwnia as poume...

H ithikh diastash tora einai olo to zoumi...
Kat'arxhn giati theoroyme thn thanatikh poinh xeiroterh apo thn isoveia fylakish??? Mas vevaiwse kaneis oti o thanatos einai xeiroteros apo thn zoh sthn fylakh (gia na mhn po apo thn zwh genikotera!)?
An kseperasoume ayto to theorhtiko dilhmma, exoume na eksetasoume alles parametrous, pio praktikes, p.x. ta peri dikastikhs planhs, dikaiomatos afaireshs ths zwhs klp.
Genika pisteuo oti exeis dikaioma na afaireseis mono ayta pou esu parexeis...
Pisteuo epishs oti h koinwnia den mas parexei mono to eu zhn alla kaito idio to zhn...kai ara exei dikaioma afaireshs zwhs...
To problhma einai omos oti tpt den einai teleio...to sofronistiko systhma vevaia den leitourgei sosta...to idio omos kai to dikastiko...mexri kai to nomothetiko (to giati einai mia ponemenh istoria...) , ara oi apofaseis mporoun na apoboun moiraies gia kapoious athoous anthropous. Kai an, opos synithizoume, theorhsoume thn zoh kaluterh apo thon thanato, tote nai, exei diafora to na kleisei adika kapoion sthn fulakh apo to na toy afaireseis adika th zoh. Giati mesa sthn fylakh mporei na mhn exeis ayto pou theoroume aksiopreph zoh, alla toylaxiston zeis, kai mporeis na kaneis diafora prgmt, dhmiourgikotata...

Me liga logia ...kata. As ftiaksoun tis fylakes kai to dikastiko systhma prota kai tha einai arketa...
Edo oloklhrh elladara ths giannas tou Athens2004 kai th skapoularoun dolofonoi kai to paizoune arxhgoi...

[Deggial]

H leitourgikh diastash exei na kanei me to poso h thanatikh poinh tha eksyphretoyse ta symferonta kai tiw epidiokseis ths politeias. An dld tha boithouse sthn eyrythmia, thn diathrhsh ths taksis mia politeias klp. Apo ayth thn apopsi (logw toy oti oi poines leitourgoun paradeigmatika) isos na eixe kapoia xrhsimothta. Kai ayto omos eksartatai apo thn koinwnia...den pisteyo na eixe paradeigmatistikes idiothtes se mia indouistikh koinwnia as poume...

Η ποινή ποτέ δεν εμπόδισε κανένα απ'το να διαπράξει κάποιο έγκλημα, σε καμία κοινωνία. Αν θες ένα πολύ καλό παράδειγμα, πάρε την Αγγλία του 19ου αιώνα, όπου υπήρχαν σχεδόν 200 εγκλήματα με θανατική καταδίκη ως ποινή. Σε διαβεβαιώ πως δεν ήταν διόλου ασφαλέστερη χώρα.

[Dragonlord]

Kat'arxhn giati theoroyme thn thanatikh poinh xeiroterh apo thn isoveia fylakish??? Mas vevaiwse kaneis oti o thanatos einai xeiroteros apo thn zoh sthn fylakh (gia na mhn po apo thn zwh genikotera!)?
as'ton na to apofasisei monos tou-an protima to 8anato 8a vrei tropo na autoktonhsei.me auth th logikh mporoume na tous skotwsoume olous,entos kai ektos fylakwn.

Pisteuo epishs oti h koinwnia den mas parexei mono to eu zhn alla kaito idio to zhn...kai ara exei dikaioma afaireshs zwhs...
dhladh ama se apomakrynoun apo thn koinwnia kai se steiloun se ena erhmiko nhsi me mpananies kai trexoumena nera automata pe8aineis?eleos.

[cancer]

genika kata
eidika yper, alla oxi gia tous logous gia tous opoious efarmozetai simera...
kai pali, 8a to apokalousa euthanasia, oxi thanatiki poini.

[enitharmon]

euthanasia.... lol!

[freak brother]

e?

[freak brother]

e?

[enitharmon]

diavase to post tou cancer.....

[Faithless Spirit]

exm diladi Deggial theleis na peis oti an den upirxan nomoi kai mpatsoi (:P) den tha parathrousame kamia alagh sthn eglhmatikothta? :?

[Deggial]

Μάλλον δε διάβασες καλά τι είπα, αλλά μη συγχέεις νόμους και αστυνόμους.

Αυτό που είπα είναι πως κανείς δεν υπολογίζει τη ποινή πρωτού διαπράξει το έγκλημα. Εξάλλου η εγκληματικότητα γεννιέται από κοινωνικούς παράγοντες, όπως η ξενοφοβία, χαμηλό επίπεδο μόρφωσης, επίπεδο διαβίωσης, ανεργία, κ.α.. Η αλλαγή λοιπόν στο επίπεδο εγκλιματικότητας μπορεί να προέλθει κατόπιν αντιμετώπισης των ανωτέρω παραγόντων και όχι με άυξιση ή μείωση της ποινής. Συμπερασματικά, το ποινικό σύστημα πρέπει να αποσκοπεί στον σοφρωνισμό του εγκληματία και την ομαλή επανένταξή του ως υγιές μέλος της.

Όσον αφορά τους αστυνομικούς (τους οποίους δε τους είχα αναφέρει πουθενά, αλλά μιας και τους ανάφερες...), ο συστηματικός έλεγχος μειώνει την εγκλιματικότητα (ή για την ακρίβεια, η έλλειψη ελέγχου την αυξάνει). Τρανό και περήφανο παράδειγμα η άνθηση του οικονομικού εγκλήματος στην Ελλάδα :)

[freak brother]

H Ellada btw exei thn mikroterh egklhmatikothta sthn Evrwph .. prwth einai makran to kwlonhsi koinos gnwsto kai ws agglia

[BLiTzER]

Epeidh phdiountai oloi apo ta 12 kai sta 20 exoun 2 paidia kai exoun gemisei oi dromoi malakismena 10xrona, eno oi goneis akoma phdiountai sto spiti. Ps gamo tis syntakseis :)

[Faithless Spirit]

ehm pisteuw oti o "fovos" ths timorias einai ena polu kalo kinhtro gia na mhn diapraksi kapios kapio eglhma (asxeto an einai themito h oxi)

[Oriion]

to an o fovos ths poinhs apotrepei apo to egklhma den to syzhtao...einai aytonohto...
ksero kleptomanh pou "therapeythke" otan eide se aravikh xora na kovoun xeria se aytous pou eixan klepsei...

tora gia to pneyma twn poinwn kai gia to an tha prepei na exoun stoxo ton sofronismo h thn timoria tou drasth. Entaksei ston "politismeno" kairo mas upotithetai oti oi nomoi prepei na sofronizoun. Kai ego symfono. Alla den pisteyo oti h poinh "isovia kathirksh" stoxeyei ston sofronismo...dld ti kanei ? proetoimazei ton kakopoio gia ton paradeiso?

[freak brother]

eixe mia ekpomph sthn agglia pou legotan lifer
eixe sunenteuxeis ton isovitwn 20 xronia prin kai tous edeixne twra pou vghkan apo thn fulakh.. htan apisteuth... oloi fusika dhlwnan apeirws metaniwmenoi...skepsou na eisai 20 kai na xanavgeis exw sta 40 sou..

[BLiTzER]

Skepsou na eisai 19 kai na diaprakseis fono..

[When Black Roses Bloom]

Basika, eixa akousei prin xronia, kai den 8umamai akribws thn istoria, gia enan rwsso, o opoios biaze mikra koritsakia me maxairi, kai ta katakreourgouse sthn synexeia. Aytos o "an8rwpos", pou kata thn gnwmh kapoiwn den aksize ton 8anato, upeblh8h se egxeirish allaghs fullou, bias8hke apo kratoumenous fulakwn, kai sthn synexeia purobolh8hke sto kefali.


Poios einai o 8uths kai poio to 8uma? Sthn sugkekrimenh periptwsh pantws to fxaristh8hka. Kai nai, eimai uper ths 8anatikhs poinhs, se polles apo tis periptwseis. Giati, polles foreis, "megala psaria" briskoun para8urakia kai thn kanoun apo tis fullakes, sunexizontas thn "basileia tous" ksana ston eley8ero kosmo.

[BLiTzER]

Ego pali thymamai persi ta paidia me th mhxanh pou paresyre o malakas o alvanos ESKEMMENA me to aytokinhto tou.

O odhgos ths mhxanhs exei xasei hdh to ena xeri, eno to allo einai 99% anaphro kai mallon tha valei texnhto melos (gia to opoio mazeyan lefta mexri prosfata.. apo diaforous ethelontes).

H kopela paraligo na xasei epishs ena xeri, to opoio telika glytose me ena pososto anaphrias "aplos".

Kai meta mou lete oti de mporei na krinei kaneis poios aksizei na zei kai poios oxi.. heh.. Ego prosopika tha ton evaza se enan toixo kai tha tou ekana ta podia kima.

[When Black Roses Bloom]

Mhn pas makrua Bli][zer, giati kai prin merikous mhnes egine kati paromoio me duo pakistanous, pou xthphsan enan nearo, kai ton egkateleipsan.....

Sthn pura!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :evil:

[Oriion]

sthn arxh anaferthika sthn thanatikh poinh alla den einai ayto to thema...

as toparadextoume...ekdikhsh einai ayto pou theloume kai oxi apla na timorhthei o thyths. S'aythn thn periptosh omos pisteuo oti kanete ena lathos: nomizete oti an parei h politeia ekdikhsh gia logariasmo sas tha ikanopoihtheite.
Pantos otan kati eksorgizei emena den thelo gia kanena logo na anakateythei allos...
Thelo oti kano na to kano monos gia na ksespao.
An thelete loipon na tou liosete th mapa aytoy pou petakse ta paidia sto diazoma h pou viaze to paidaki...kante to monoi sas...
...tora mhn mou peite oti perimenete kai thn kalypsh ths politeias :)

[freak brother]

maniaths eisai h krhtikos oriion??
dark angel vendetta kietsi

[ang69]

sthn arxh anaferthika sthn thanatikh poinh alla den einai ayto to thema...

as toparadextoume...ekdikhsh einai ayto pou theloume kai oxi apla na timorhthei o thyths. S'aythn thn periptosh omos pisteuo oti kanete ena lathos: nomizete oti an parei h politeia ekdikhsh gia logariasmo sas tha ikanopoihtheite.
Pantos otan kati eksorgizei emena den thelo gia kanena logo na anakateythei allos...
Thelo oti kano na to kano monos gia na ksespao.
An thelete loipon na tou liosete th mapa aytoy pou petakse ta paidia sto diazoma h pou viaze to paidaki...kante to monoi sas...
...tora mhn mou peite oti perimenete kai thn kalypsh ths politeias :)

Kai se ti akrivws eisai kalyteros apo auton se mia tetoia periptwsh?

[cloud]

Ayto to thema (death penalty) prepei na einai to pio polysizitimeno sta forum genikws. Egw mono exw kanei 3 topics se 3 diaforetika forums. Ena exw na pw: akrh den vgazeis.

[Faithless Spirit]

sto oti den to ksekinise ang..

[ang69]

a tote ola einai enta3ei :roll:

[BLiTzER]

Den einai poios to ksekinhse protos h poios tha exei typseis meta. Einai oti oi malakies timorountai, esto ki an gineis malakas o idios.

Ektos ki an theoreis oti einai idios aytos pou viazei kai skotonei (h to antitheto) ena 5xrono koritsaki me ayton pou skotonei ayton pou to kane. Tote paso.

[Oriion]

paketo...
mhpos telika den mporei na vgei akrh?
..den pisteyo...pantos skefteite to an aytoi pou kanoun tetoia egklhmata othountai kai apo to gegonos oti uparxei atimorisia...
oi "megaloi" pou anaferthikan, tha ksefeygan akomh kai an uphrxe thanatikh poinh...oso barytero einai ena metro toso pio polu timorountai oi adunatoi...
me ton tropo pou shmera leitoyrgei h dikaiosynh tromazo sth skepsh toy endexomenou epistrofhs ths thanatikhs poinhs...
ta pragmata einai ena geloio alisverisi sto opoio nika o isxyroteros...

poinh katadiakashenton 17N: ta 2500 xronia sygxoneyontai se 25...oi 21 fores isovia shmainoun oti h upothesh mporei na ksanadikastei meta apo 22 xronia kai o 21akis isoviths na fygei eleytheros...kai epishs ta 49 xronia sygxoneyontai KAI ayta se 25....

ti mathainoume apo ayto?? -Osa perissotera egklhmata kaneis toso pio fthna thn vgazeis katharh...

KUKLOFOREI:"Giati h dikaiosunh einai tyflh? -Giati ths exoun vgalei ta matia oi leitourgoi ths..."
:)

[BLiTzER]

Morh poutana edo eisai? MetallicA re mouniiiiiiii \m/_

[BeBiT]

Basika, eixa akousei prin xronia, kai den 8umamai akribws thn istoria, gia enan rwsso, o opoios biaze mikra koritsakia me maxairi, kai ta katakreourgouse sthn synexeia. Aytos o "an8rwpos", pou kata thn gnwmh kapoiwn den aksize ton 8anato, upeblh8h se egxeirish allaghs fullou, bias8hke apo kratoumenous fulakwn, kai sthn synexeia purobolh8hke sto kefali.


Poios einai o 8uths kai poio to 8uma? Sthn sugkekrimenh periptwsh pantws to fxaristh8hka. Kai nai, eimai uper ths 8anatikhs poinhs, se polles apo tis periptwseis. Giati, polles foreis, "megala psaria" briskoun para8urakia kai thn kanoun apo tis fullakes, sunexizontas thn "basileia tous" ksana ston eley8ero kosmo.

Kala edw den milame gia an8rwpo milame gia metalagmeno egefalo katastrofea tou an8rwpinoy genous

[Stormrider]

ntax...xwris na eimai iper... na pw tin alitheia eixa mia idieteri simpathia stin 17N

[BeBiT]

ntax...xwris na eimai iper... na pw tin alitheia eixa mia idieteri simpathia stin 17N
asxeto afto pou les ektos ki an 8eleis na ektelestoun oi ths 17N

[When Black Roses Bloom]

Oxi, alla nomizw oti h 17 N eixe ksekinhsei san organwsh pou ekane "kseka8arisma" twn kataka8iwn-politikwn pou eixan glutwsei ta dikasthria kai thn katadikh meta thn eptaetia ths xountas :D

[Estelle]

Yper

Ante na katharisoun oi pteruges twn psycho mass murderers, emporous narkwtikwn kai tromokratwn stis fulakes kai na glytwsoun kai ta krath ta ekatomuria pou ksodeuontai kathe xrono gia na pinoun kai na koimountai autoi tzampa kai pou sto katw katw tous plhrwnoume egw kai seis apo tous forous mas.

[4vatar 0f Death]

Kata. dhlwmeno kata polles fores edw kai polu kairo...

A. to aploustero, to praktikotero... Poios 8a krinei? Den uparxei an8rwpos apoluta antikeimenikos. ligo h 3enwfobia, ligo ta paidia traumata, ligo to ena, ligo to allo,oloi mas kati koubalame, ara o an8rwpos pou 8a apofasizei 8elontas h oxi 8a skotwsei kai kapoion a8wo, toulaxiston 1 stous 20.. estw oti uparxoun 20 pou pisteuete oti den tous a3izei na zoun, a3izei na xa8ei kai enas a8wos gia na tous timwrisete?

B. O fobos ths 8anatikhs poinhs mallon to anti8eto apotelesma exei apo 8a nomize kaneis. To 99% twn fonwn ginontai en brasmo psyxhs h logo panoias. Otan eisai trelos h ta exeis parei teliws den koitas ton nomo, den koitas sunepeies. skepsou omws to allo paradeigma: pairneis meros se lhsteia, xwris na to 8eleis ta pragmata 3efeugoun apo ton elenxo, frikareis kai skotwneis kapoion, 3ereis oti twra ean se poiasoune kata 60% 8a se skotwsoun, 8a skotwseis h oxi perissoterous mono kai mono gia na 3efugeis kai na epizhseis? exei sumbei arketes fores kai sxedon panta o lhsths skotwse kai allous...

G. Statistika apotelesma dixnoun oti oi xwres pou DEN exoun 8anatikh poinh exoun ligoterous dolofonous. tuxaio? oxi giati ean h xwra sou sou didaskei apo otan hsoun 5 oti to na skotwneis einai lush, to pisteueis. polu eukola.

D. Kai pername twra sto h8iko.

apantwntas sth klasikh erwthsh peri tou biasmou ths kohs sou pou upo8ike kai pio prin. Ean biasmos egine apo ton aderfo sou, o opoios eixe xasei thn douleia tou 3 fores tous teleutaious 2 mhnes, oles tou oi sxeseis htan apotyxia, htan ek geneths me prodia8esh gia kata8lhpsh kai ta teleutaia 2 xronia kratiotane logikos me xapia, kapoia stigmh ta xase trela8ike kai thn biase, twra brsketai se parakroush me efialtes kai paralhrhma, 8a sou htan to idio aplo na ton skotwseis? gia to oti zoume se ena kosmo me trelous den ftaiei kaneis allos para oti emeis h idia koinwnia tous trelenoume emeis tous kanoume terata kai frikia, den uparxoun mwra me dolofwnikes taseis. Opote pia einai h apopsh sou? oti nai tous trelaname, nai tous kaname terata, 8a tous skotwsoume kai apo panw? kai pes oti to kaneis 8a htan h oxi "dikaio" na "timwrh8eis" kai esu gia auto? se teutaia analush kai autos kai esu skotwse/es - plhgwse/es giati htan/hsoun adunamos na sunxwresei/eis.

[katwrimos]

o 4avatar exei dikio 100% alla distixos to na katseis na eksigisis sta atoma pou einai iper tis thanatikis pinis to lathos tous, einai eksorismou atopo.

Opote krima, paei xameno ena oraio post afou osoi to katalavenoun simfonoun idi me afto eno osi diafonoun den exoun eparki antilipsi gia na to katalavoun

[4vatar 0f Death]

Opote krima, paei xameno ena oraio post afou osoi to katalavenoun simfonoun idi me afto eno osi diafonoun den exoun eparki antilipsi gia na to katalavoun

den peirazei mou aresei na ta lew... den bariese... pote den 3ereis.

[Phoebus]

Na symplhrwsw sto poly kalo post tou 4vatar panw sto shmeio pou eipe gia brasmo psyxhs kai paranoias.

Genikws pisteyw oti oi egklhmaties, eite kanoun akraia pragmata (san ayta pou eipe o WBRB) eite oxi, einai paragwga tou shmerinou systhmatos. Se ola ta epipeda. Apo thn stigmh pou genniesai mexri thn stigmh pou pethaineis dexesai elegxomenes plhrofories oi opoies exoun enan kai mono skopo: na se kanoun gidi. Polloi anthrwpoi, genniountai xwris ston hlio moira, ti perimenei h koinwnia apo aytous? Na ginoun pyrhnikoi fysikoi? Alla akoma kai otan eisai se mia kalyterh fainomenika koinothta, oi pieseis eksakolouthoun na yparxoun, eidika sthn ergasiako tomea. Oi gnwseis sou (pou me toso kopo kai idrwma, isws kai sperma) pou apekthses sto panepisthmio den se kanoun pio eksypno, oute pio morfwmeno, se kanoun kalytero ergath, kai ayto akribws kai kati parapanw perimenoun apo sena oloi. Na apodideis, na parageis, na ferneis lefta, na dineis lefta, lefta, lefta, lefta.

Zoume zwes pou ta pathh mas katapiezoun. Kai to pio eykolo pragma mesa s'olh thn trela pou zeis hdh, einai na kaneis mia akomh trela, na skotwseis. Eite allous... eite ton eayto sou.

O theios mou apo thn meria ths manas mou aytoktonhse to 2002. Zouse sto Delaware twn HPA. H douleia tou phgaine apo to kako sto xeirotero kai phre ena peristrofo kai tinakse ta myala tou ston aera. O ksaderfos mou otan emathe oti o theios htan nekros to prwto pragma pou skefthke htan oti ton skotwsan oi mayroi ths geitonias. Eytyxws ton krathse o aderfos tou, diaforetika to pio eykolo pragma stis HPA einai na pareis ena oplo kai na skotwseis. Etsi kseroun ekei pera na lynoun tis diafores tous (eidika otan briskontai se brasmo psyxhs)...

Eite aytoxeiras eisai, eite skotwseis allous, nai men den afaireitai h eythynh apo panw sou, alla den mporeis na kathgoreisai mono esy. H koinwnia, to kratos, h politeia kanoun thn aytokritikh tous? Stis HPA h thanatikh poinh einai akoma nomimh se merikes politeies. Kai se ti aposkopei? Sto na apoballei to systhma stoixeia ta opoia ta eixe ferei sta oria tous kai "spasane".

Kai mhn bgei kanenas na mou pei gia organwmeno egklhma kai paparies, kserete poly kala oloi sas oti to organwmeno egklhma ginetai me thn anoxh-sygkatathesh ths politeias, kai apla otan kapoios dikos tous mesa s'ayta kanei kati peran aytwn pou tou dikaiologountai tote kinoun tis kata t'alla "nomimes" diadikasies gia na ton fane.

O aplos kosmakhs pou blepei fysika ta paidia tou na xanontai sta narkwtika, stis symmories, oi kopeles na ginontai poutanes gia 20 dollaria, thn aykshsh twn diaforwn, eite fyletikwn, eite oikomikwn, eite thrhskeytikwn, eite WHATEVER, den antidra. Kaneis den antidra. Protimoun omws otan ginei kati sthn oikogeneia tous anti na ikanopoihsoun to pathos tous 100% skotwnontas tous thytes/ekmetalleytes, einai arketa kotes wste na protimhsoun thn "nomimh" odo gia na skotwsoun.

Sta egklhmata pathous (pou merikes fores einai kai ta pio apexthh) oi anthrwpoi (me thn pragmatikh shmasia ths lekshs) prepei na apantane me synesh kai stoikothta.

Sto organwmeno egklhma to systhma leitourgei opws to symferei... Eite skotwnei tous thytes gia na elegksei perissotero ta gidia, eite tous krataei zwntanous gia na fernei perissotera akoma lefta. Lefta.



Eimai kata ths thanatikhs poinhs, einai kati poy ypobibazei thn anthrwpinh fysh. Akoma kai ston xeirotero egklhmatia, akoma kai s'ayton pou tha exei biasei emena, thn mana mou, tha exei skotwsei ton patera mou, kai o,ti xeirotero mporei o kathenas na fantastei, pote den tha zhthsw ton thanato tou allou. Mporei mesa mou na thelw na skotwsw, alla h nikh mou apenanti sta pathh mou tha me eksypswsei ws anthrwpo...

Ayta.

[kapetan-Korakas]

[quote="ang69"]Eimai kata gia ton aploustato logo oti gia mena to nohma tou olou swfrwnistikou systhmatos vrisketai sto onoma tou, pou to exoume 3exasei.

Swfrwnismos kai oxi timwria. Na prospa8hseis dhladh na "8erapeuseis" ton allo kai na ton (epan)enta3eis sthn koinwnia. An auto de ginetai, na ton krathseis makria apo thn koinwnia (px isovia fylakish).

Yper stous viastes anilikwn.
otan mou peis pos tha therapeuseis ton viasti anilikwn tote kai egw tha psifisw oxi .. mehri tote katse esi na sou viasoun tin koroula sou kai na peis therapeuste to palikari den peirazei .

4avatar of death , sou deihnw 1000 alous tetoious pou den viasan koritsakia. tetoioi einai peritoi stin zwi teleiwse, mpes stin thesi enos patera kai min to vlepeis ape3w apo tin fasi. eukolo na krineis ama eisai e3w apo ton xoro

[Brutally]

Psyfizw 4vatar of death...Exei dikio!

[BeBiT]

Eimai kata gia ton aploustato logo oti gia mena to nohma tou olou swfrwnistikou systhmatos vrisketai sto onoma tou, pou to exoume 3exasei.

Swfrwnismos kai oxi timwria. Na prospa8hseis dhladh na "8erapeuseis" ton allo kai na ton (epan)enta3eis sthn koinwnia. An auto de ginetai, na ton krathseis makria apo thn koinwnia (px isovia fylakish).

Yper stous viastes anilikwn.
otan mou peis pos tha therapeuseis ton viasti anilikwn tote kai egw tha psifisw oxi .. mehri tote katse esi na sou viasoun tin koroula sou kai na peis therapeuste to palikari den peirazei .

4avatar of death , sou deihnw 1000 alous tetoious pou den viasan koritsakia. tetoioi einai peritoi stin zwi teleiwse, mpes stin thesi enos patera kai min to vlepeis ape3w apo tin fasi. eukolo na krineis ama eisai e3w apo ton xoro
Nai exeis dikio an epivlh8ei thanatikh poinh o ektelesths prepei na einai o pateras ths bias8hsas

[Twisted_Bassist]

egw vasika variomoun na diavasw ti grafate...padws ime fanatika kata

[atom_smasher]

nai men kata eimai,alla duskoleuomai na apofasisw gia tous paiderastes(ennow tipota 6, 11xrona)...o kathenas exei thn apopsh tou.sto mathhma eglhmatologias pou parakolouthousa to prohgoumeno e3amhno den bgalame oute emeis akrh.einai polu suntheto zhthma kai den exei na kanei mono me ta idia ta atoma alla kai me to koinwniko sunolo susthma klp klp.vasika kata loipon.(ehm 16xrona den ta thewrw toso mikra alla kalou kakou na ta apofeugete,giati mhn 3exnate oti oi fulakismenoi den sugxwroun eukola kati tetoia...)

[Deggial]

Όπως είχα αναφέρει και παλιότερα σε αυτό το τόπικ, ένα απ'τα σημαντικότερα προβλήματα είναι πως η θανατική καταδίκη, εφόσον εκτελεστεί, δεν είναι ανακλήσιμη (για προφανείς λόγους). Υπάρχουν τέτοιες περιπτώσεις, όπου αποδείχθει η αθωότητα του κατηγορουμένου μετά την εκτέλεση της ποινής του. Αν όχι για τους λόγους που ανάφερε ο 4vatar (με τους οποίους και συμφωνώ απόλυτα), τουλάχιστον αυτό, καθώς μια λάθος απόφαση είναι βαρύ φορτίο, όσο σπάνια και αν συμβαίνει.

[BLiTzER]

Όπως είχα αναφέρει και παλιότερα σε αυτό το τόπικ, ένα απ'τα σημαντικότερα προβλήματα είναι πως η θανατική καταδίκη, εφόσον εκτελεστεί, δεν είναι ανακλήσιμη (για προφανείς λόγους).

Eno h fylakish anakaleitai? Tou dinoun ta xronia pou perase sth fylakh piso? Pos? :)

[The Butcher]

allo to ena allo to allo k to ksereis

symfwnw me ta poiitika pou eipe o phoebus k me ton 4vatar.

eixa psifisei paliotera

[BLiTzER]

Nai sth mia periptosh exei xasei oloklhrh th zoh tou, eno sthn allh "mono" ena meros ths. Ante pes se enan typo pou athoonetai meta apo 10 xronia fylakishs oti den einai to idio.

[Kain]

Kata gia osa eipwthikan para panw kai gia enan akoma logo.
Pes oti prokeitai gia thn periptwsh kapoiou maniakou dolofonou h' kati paromoio.H thanatikh poinh einai h eukolh lysh.Mpenei sthn fylakh kai meta apo ligo ton skotwnoun,ekei teleiwnei h "timwria" tou.An katadikastei se isovia omws tha zhsei olh tou thn zwh sthn fylakh opou tha trwei skata apo olous tous ypoloipous kratoumenous kai apo tous fylakes.Ekei einai h alh8inh timwria,pisteuw pws einai pio sklhro apo to ginei mia ektelesh opou pera apo ton fovo ligo prin,den exei epiptwseis gia auto to atomo.Apo thn allh an telika to atomo einai athwo yparxei panta h periptwsh na athwothei,kati pou DEN tha exei shmasia efoson einai nekros.

[The Butcher]

[zER]Nai sth mia periptosh exei xasei oloklhrh th zoh tou, eno sthn allh "mono" ena meros ths. Ante pes se enan typo pou athoonetai meta apo 10 xronia fylakishs oti den einai to idio.
as tous skotwnoume dld giati etsi k alliws k fylaki osoi mpainoun katestrammenoi einai k de xreiazontai.

allo to ena allo to allo k to ksereis

[BLiTzER]

Mpenei sthn fylakh kai meta apo ligo ton skotwnoun,ekei teleiwnei h "timwria" tou.An katadikastei se isovia omws tha zhsei olh tou thn zwh sthn fylakh opou tha trwei skata apo olous tous ypoloipous kratoumenous kai apo tous fylakes.Ekei einai h alh8inh timwria,pisteuw pws einai pio sklhro apo to ginei mia ektelesh opou pera apo ton fovo ligo prin,den exei epiptwseis gia auto to atomo.Apo thn allh an telika to atomo einai athwo yparxei panta h periptwsh na athwothei,kati pou DEN tha exei shmasia efoson einai nekros.

Kai ksanaleo oti oute h poinh fylakishs diorthonetai me KANENAN tropo. Apla to timhma se mia ektelesh einai megalytero. Ki ayto dld paizetai.

Epishs agnoeis oti ontas sth fylakh diathrei elpides na ksefygei, eite nomima, eite paranoma. Posoi sapizoun sth fylakh nomizeis? Heh..

[BLiTzER]

[quote="BLi][zER":3u45w3vn]Nai sth mia periptosh exei xasei oloklhrh th zoh tou, eno sthn allh "mono" ena meros ths. Ante pes se enan typo pou athoonetai meta apo 10 xronia fylakishs oti den einai to idio.
as tous skotwnoume dld giati etsi k alliws k fylaki osoi mpainoun katestrammenoi einai k de xreiazontai.

allo to ena allo to allo k to ksereis[/quote:3u45w3vn]

Uhm.. ok ypotitloi. Eipes "allo to ena kai allo to allo" kai apanthsa "ante pes se enan typo pou athoonetai meta apo 10 xronia fylakishs (epeidh HTAN athoos in the first place) oti ALLO TO ENA KAI ALLO TO ALLO (to opoio daneisthka apo to diko sou post)".

Sto proto mou post eipa: Nai sthn ektelesh giati merikoi exoun ksefygei kai den prosferoun tpt sthn koinonia anyway. Oxi sthn ektelesh oso de mporei na efarmostei 100% sosta.

[Kain]

Den lew oti den exei kostos to na meineis sthn fylakh alla skepsou to pws tha to vlepei enas kratoumenos pou htan mesa gia 10 xronia px. Nomizw pws tha xarei pou htan 10 xronia kai tha xarei pou den htan 20-30-40 xronia h' h zwh tou h idia.

Kai ontws den sapizoun oloi sthn fylakh alla apo oso kserw otan proketai gia kapoion pou ekane kati vary (opws thn periptwsh pou anefera prohgoumenws) yparxei,an oxi amesh antidrash,toulaxiston o fovos pws tou thn exoune sthmenh kai ton kynhgoun ktl.Den einai anagkh na antidrasei kaneis mesa apo thn fylakh einai kai oi proswpikoi daimones tou kathenws.

[BLiTzER]

Den lew oti den exei kostos to na meineis sthn fylakh alla skepsou to pws tha to vlepei enas kratoumenos pou htan mesa gia 10 xronia px. Nomizw pws tha xarei pou htan 10 xronia kai tha xarei pou den htan 20-30-40 xronia h' h zwh tou h idia.

Ti les tora??? Sovara milas? Tha fas 10 xronia fylakh ADIKA kai tha eisai kai eyxaristhmenos pou den htan xeirotera???????? The greek way of thinking :P


yparxei,an oxi amesh antidrash,toulaxiston o fovos pws tou thn exoune sthmenh kai ton kynhgoun

To opoio omos den exei kamia ma kamia sxesh me to sofronistiko mas systhma. De nomizeis oti an yphrxe o fovos ths ekteleshs tha leitourgouse akrivos me ton idio tropo? Isos kai pio apotelesmatika? :)

[Kain]

Vasika an to deis apo thn apopsh pws "Tha mporousa na mhn exw athwothei pote" einai kapws logiko na to peis.Ntaksei auto einai sthn psyxologia tou kathenos mallon. :P

Eprepe na ksekatharisw pws anaferomoun se alles xwres me pio organomena sofronistika systhmata.Ekei exoume kai thn pleiada twn periptosewn variwn egglhmatwn. :P

[BLiTzER]

To thema einai oti anaferete os epixeirhma to mh anastrepsimo ths thanatikhs poinhs, eno sthn ousia kamia poinh den exei ayth thn polyteleia apo th stigmh pou tha efarmosthei. Ektos vevaia ths xrhmatikhs.

Dexomai (kai symfono) oti yparxoun epixeirhmata kata ths thanatikhs katadikhs, gi'ayto kai diathro epifylakseis alloste, alla ayto to sygkekrimeno to theoro akyro.

[eyeamflesch]

eimai yper, eidika stous emporous narkwtikwn, sta vaporakia kai sta zakia

Saxle.

[necropethamenos]

eimai yper, eidika stous emporous narkwtikwn, sta vaporakia kai sta zakia


ntaks mlk, eleos omws.

diladi ok kai gw thewrw aksio tis moiras tou opoion ginei prezaki alla oxi na ton fame kiolas!

ama einai etsi na skotwsoume kai mena pou exw food addiction.

[wraithmare]

ΚΑΤΑ
Θα έπρεπε να ασκείται (or whatever, δεν βρίσκω το ρήμα τώρα :roll: ) μόνο σε πολύ extreme περιπτώσεις... αν και αμφιβάλλω για τον αν οποιοδήποτε νομικό σύστημα θα μπορούσε να προβλέψει και να θέσει τέτοιες περιπτώσεις...και σε ένα υποθετικό σύμπαν που ένα σύστημα νόμων έθετε την θανατική καταδίκη υπό όρους, κάθε δικηγόρος θα έβρισκε πολύ σύντομα "παραθυράκια" για να αποκλείει τον οποιοδήποτε κατηγορούμενο από μια τέτοια καταδίκη (κοινώς μούφα-ανεφαρμοστος νόμος)

Προυποθέσεις για θαν.καταδίκη;
Extreme law violations
Κανένα high score σε δολοφονίες
Διακίνηση ναρκωτικά σε τόνους
Extreme πράγματα, γενικά

[eyeamflesch]

Eimai kata gia ton aploustato logo oti gia mena to nohma tou olou swfrwnistikou systhmatos vrisketai sto onoma tou, pou to exoume 3exasei.

Swfrwnismos kai oxi timwria. Na prospa8hseis dhladh na "8erapeuseis" ton allo kai na ton (epan)enta3eis sthn koinwnia. An auto de ginetai, na ton krathseis makria apo thn koinwnia (px isovia fylakish).

Yper stous viastes anilikwn.
otan mou peis pos tha therapeuseis ton viasti anilikwn tote kai egw tha psifisw oxi .. mehri tote katse esi na sou viasoun tin koroula sou kai na peis therapeuste to palikari den peirazei .

4avatar of death , sou deihnw 1000 alous tetoious pou den viasan koritsakia. tetoioi einai peritoi stin zwi teleiwse, mpes stin thesi enos patera kai min to vlepeis ape3w apo tin fasi. eukolo na krineis ama eisai e3w apo ton xoro
Nai exeis dikio an epivlh8ei thanatikh poinh o ektelesths prepei na einai o pateras ths bias8hsas

Kiama o biastis aselgise se 10 koritsakia apo diaforetikies families pws tha skotwsoun 10 paterades ena atomo?

[4vatar 0f Death]

@Phoebus: WORD!


[zER]
Sto proto mou post eipa: Nai sthn ektelesh giati merikoi exoun ksefygei kai den prosferoun tpt sthn koinonia anyway. Oxi sthn ektelesh oso de mporei na efarmostei 100% sosta.

Otan h an8rwpothta einai toso teleia pou mporei na ektelestei mia poinh (opoiadhpote) 100% swsta den 8a uparxei logos na ektelestei kameia poinh pleon. Kai auto den einai poihtiko einai realismos.


[zER]To opoio omos den exei kamia ma kamia sxesh me to sofronistiko mas systhma. De nomizeis oti an yphrxe o fovos ths ekteleshs tha leitourgouse akrivos me ton idio tropo? Isos kai pio apotelesmatika?
Oxi:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=167
me statistikes apodei3eis. den boh8aei.

[4vatar 0f Death]

4avatar of death , sou deihnw 1000 alous tetoious pou den viasan koritsakia. tetoioi einai peritoi stin zwi teleiwse, mpes stin thesi enos patera kai min to vlepeis ape3w apo tin fasi. eukolo na krineis ama eisai e3w apo ton xoro

hmm. des to etsi. pes oti paizeis me mpoukalakia me ekrhktiko uliko kai ta petas katw sunexei kai ta 1000 prwta den spane, kai to 1001 spaei kai ta g* ola! To na guriseis na mou peis meta oti nai alla ta alla 1000 den spasan to 8ewreis epixeirhma? Otan rixneis katw mpoukalakia kapoio 8a spasei. Etsi kai otan gazoneis me mlkies tous an8rwpous kapoios 8a trela8ei, oxi oloi fusika alla enas einai enas perrisootero apo oti prepei...

Ofeilw na to dw e3w apo to xoro ean 8elw na legomai dikaios. Giati ean to dw san h mana tou trelou 8a ton a8owna opws kai san o pateras tou biasmenou 8a ton skotwna, giati opws oloi oi an8rwpoi eimai deilos kai egwkentrikos, kai otan xasw kati 8a arxhsw na ourliazw san mlkas stou upoloipous anti na katsw na to lusw, px na boh8hsw thn korh mou pou 8a me exei anagkh, giati auto kanoun oi an8rwpoi, einai to enstikto. Kai tote einai pou prepei o e3w na me balei sthn 8esh mou, mpas kai sw8ei h korh mou.

[Deggial]

[zER]To opoio omos den exei kamia ma kamia sxesh me to sofronistiko mas systhma. De nomizeis oti an yphrxe o fovos ths ekteleshs tha leitourgouse akrivos me ton idio tropo? Isos kai pio apotelesmatika? :)

Όποιος το λέει αυτό, απλά δεν έχει ιδέα για το τι μιλάει και δε ξέρει τι του γίνεται. Αποδεδειγμένα και αδιαμφισβήτητα, η ποινή δεν εμποδίζει κάποιον απ'το να διαπράξει ένα έγκλημα. Αν ψάξεις στη 3η ή 4η σελίδα, έχω αναφέρει ως παράδειγμα την Αγγλία του 19ου αιώνα.

[BLiTzER]

Otan h an8rwpothta einai toso teleia pou mporei na ektelestei mia poinh (opoiadhpote) 100% swsta den 8a uparxei logos na ektelestei kameia poinh pleon. Kai auto den einai poihtiko einai realismos.

Diafono. Ena apsogo dikastiko kai ektelestiko systhma apexei poly apo enan teleio kosmo kai gia na eimai eilikrinhs den to vrisko kai toso mh efikto. Pantos oxi sthn ellada :P


Oxi:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=167
me statistikes apodei3eis. den boh8aei.

To xo ksanapei: "Statistics can be made to prove anything - even the truth."

Epipleon, de nomizo oti prosferei kati ligotero apo th fylakish. Opote den katalavaino giati na efarmozetai h teleytaia anti ths ekteleshs. Otan kapoios troei isovia gia tis malakies tou, giati na mhn ektelestei epi topou kai na glytosoume oloi xrono kai xrhma? Poia h diafora? Kai stis 2 periptoseis THEORHTIKA exei xasei th zoh tou.

[BLiTzER]

Όποιος το λέει αυτό, απλά δεν έχει ιδέα για το τι μιλάει και δε ξέρει τι του γίνεται. Αποδεδειγμένα και αδιαμφισβήτητα, η ποινή δεν εμποδίζει κάποιον απ'το να διαπράξει ένα έγκλημα. Αν ψάξεις στη 3η ή 4η σελίδα, έχω αναφέρει ως παράδειγμα την Αγγλία του 19ου αιώνα.

Den eipa pouthena oti to pisteyo.

Eipa apla oti AN isxyei ayto pou eipe (o fovos tou kynhghmenou ktl) giati na mhn yfistatai kai o fovos ths syriggas tou thanatou...

[4vatar 0f Death]

[zER]...

Diafono. Ena apsogo dikastiko kai ektelestiko systhma apexei poly apo enan teleio kosmo kai gia na eimai eilikrinhs den to vrisko kai toso mh efikto. Pantos oxi sthn ellada :P
...
To xo ksanapei: "Statistics can be made to prove anything - even the truth."
....
Epipleon, de nomizo oti prosferei kati ligotero apo th fylakish. Opote den katalavaino giati na efarmozetai h teleytaia anti ths ekteleshs. Otan kapoios troei isovia gia tis malakies tou, giati na mhn ektelestei epi topou kai na glytosoume oloi xrono kai xrhma? Poia h diafora? Kai stis 2 periptoseis THEORHTIKA exei xasei th zoh tou.

a. diafonw. gia se teleutaia analush ola basizontai sthn akeraiothta enos an8rwpou oti kai na kaneis ean pesei enas diefarmenos- h estw ena ligo prokateleimenos ekei thn ekatses, exases to 100% kai o monos tropos na eisai sigouros einai na mhn uparxoun diefarmenoi/prokateleimenoi an8rwpoi.

b. dekto alla so can Logic and so can Feelings. loipon ti ta egkataleipoume ola?

c.to 3anaeipa mporei na a8ow8ei kai na sunexisei thn zwh tou. enw den mporei na anasth8ei.

[BLiTzER]

c.to 3anaeipa mporei na a8ow8ei kai na sunexisei thn zwh tou. enw den mporei na anasth8ei.

Opos de mporei kaneis na tou epistrepsei to xrono pou efage sth fylakh.. kai poios kserei ti allo.

Opos kai na xei, milas gia to 0.1% ton periptoseon (gia na milhso me statistika :P kai poly vazo). Thysiazoume mia apotelesmatikoterh (kata th dikh mou gnomh panta) methodo gia th mia fora stis toses pou tha apodeixthei lathos. Kai pali oxi logo adynamias ths idias ths methodou.

[katwrimos]

blitzer: pos ginetai na antipatheis tous elinares kai sigxronos na efarmozeis ti favorite praktiki tous elinaras-know it all-apantao se oti me simferei?

O 4avatar egrapse ena post me apsoga epixirimata apo ta opoia asxolithikes sovara mono me 2.

Episis an den mporeis na katalaveis ti diafora metaksi tou na anakaliptoun oti eisai athoos eno eisai sti filaki kai na to anakaliptoun eno eisai nekros, malon eisai kathisterimenos, alla sti sigekrimeni periptosi safos kai to katalavaineis, kai apla to paizeis kathisterimenos giati den exeis sovaro epixirima na to antimetopiseis. (oxi, to oti ta 10 xronia den tha sta dosei kaneis piso, an kai einai alithes DEN einai sovaro epixirima)

[BLiTzER]

blitzer: pos ginetai na antipatheis tous elinares kai sigxronos na efarmozeis ti favorite praktiki tous elinaras-know it all-apantao se oti me simferei?

O 4avatar egrapse ena post me apsoga epixirimata apo ta opoia asxolithikes sovara mono me 2.

Sxoliazo panta oti me endiaferei kai exo kati na sxoliaso epi aytou. Dld an egrafe 15 selides kai ithela na sxoliaso ena sygkekrimeno shmeio, tha prepe ypoxreotika na sxoliaso olo to keimeno? ... Eksallou mporei na symfonousa se ola ta ypoloipa.


Episis an den mporeis na katalaveis ti diafora metaksi tou na anakaliptoun oti eisai athoos eno eisai sti filaki kai na to anakaliptoun eno eisai nekros, malon eisai kathisterimenos, alla sti sigekrimeni periptosi safos kai to katalavaineis, kai apla to paizeis kathisterimenos giati den exeis sovaro epixirima na to antimetopiseis.

Huh? Pou akrivos eipa ayto pou les?

Ayto pou eipa einai oti to na eisai athoos kai na vriskesai eite sth fylakh, eite sthn hlektrikh karekla symvainei mia fora sto ekatommyrio. Poios einai o kathysterhmenos? :P


(oxi, to oti ta 10 xronia den tha sta dosei kaneis piso, an kai einai alithes DEN einai sovaro epixirima)

Einai to idio sovaro me to "h thanatikh poinh den anastrefetai, eno oles oi alles nai".

[eyeamflesch]

blitzer: pos ginetai na antipatheis tous elinares kai sigxronos na efarmozeis ti favorite praktiki tous elinaras-know it all-apantao se oti me simferei?)

Petyximeno.